ScummVM IRC Log - 27 Oct 2021

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[00:18] <grogbot> <Thunderforge> Sounds like something we should add to the FAQ 😛
[00:24] <grogbot> <eientei> > Q: Can I run Doom?" > A: Ask Foone
[00:47] <grogbot> <thoth> If someone writes a C-to-Scumm compiler maybe...
[00:57] <grogbot> <trembyle> Were any of the 90s FPS engines used for games with notable adventure elements?
[00:58] <grogbot> <trembyle> Or RPG, I guess
[00:59] <grogbot> <eientei> Legend Entertainment, the developers of Unreal, made a number of adventure games that'd fit in ScummVM perfectly, some written by ex-Infocom author Steve Meretzky
[01:04] <grogbot> <eientei> https://images.gog-statics.com/fc7a88b97f6ca56a0d10e6ff13e027b7198d7cc787ff82bf263ea77eedbfe293.jpg
[01:06] <grogbot> <trembyle> @eientei I'm not sure that really counts as an FPS.
[01:07] <grogbot> <eientei> They made Unreal tho 😛
[01:07] <grogbot> <trembyle> That's a location in one of the Legend games?
[01:07] <grogbot> <eientei> Yeah, in Eric the Unready
[01:07] <grogbot> <eientei> Also technically FP if not S are the first couple of Elder Scrolls games Arena and Daggerfall
[01:10] <grogbot> <trembyle> Right I can think of RPGs with first person engines with some degree of 3D interface, but these all have their own engines.
[01:11] <grogbot> <trembyle> Also Ultima Underworld and Might & Magic starting with VI.
[01:20] <grogbot> <eientei> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_in_the_Sky_(game_engine)
[01:35] <grogbot> <trembyle> Wow, never heard of that one
[01:36] <grogbot> <trembyle> There's this too https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Strife
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[01:51] <grogbot> <DreamMaster> Supporting the early Legend games is one of my long term wishes as well, though it'll prove tricky since each game's logic is, more than likely, hardcoded into the games' executables. I actually have a preliinary work in progress disassembly of the first Gateway game as far as figuring out much of the on-screen information. It's just been languishing for a while whilst I worked on other priorities. There may be some movement in the near
[01:51] <grogbot> future, though.. Strangerke discovered a demo of the later game Shannara that had debug/symbol information embedded in it, and although the later games are fully point-and-click, I'm hopeful the engines share some code in common, so implementing support for Shannara will help me in later figuring out the earlier games further
[01:52] <grogbot> <eientei> according to Wikipedia, the later P&C games shared an engine
[01:55] <grogbot> <DreamMaster> I'd also started a disassembly of Companions of Xanth a while back as well, so Shannara debug info will definitely help with it as well. That was a fun time.. the later Legend games used an overlay manager called RTLink to shift parts of the code in and out of memory dynamically, so it played hell on trying to create a disassembly of the games. I had to write a special tool to parse the game executables, and create a dummy executable
[01:55] <grogbot> from scratch with all the dynamic parts laid out end to end, and fix up all the references between them, so I could finally get a proper disassembly in IDA.
[01:59] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> That sounds crazy lol
[02:03] <grogbot> <eientei> That's dedication
[03:42] <Endy> Crazy dedication :)
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[04:25] <grogbot> <eriktorbjorn> Bob Bates showed up in a discussion about ZIL (the language Infocom used for their adventure games) on Facebook, and I slipped in a question on how the Legend Entertainment games were developed. His answer was pretty short on details, though. +
[04:26] <grogbot> <eriktorbjorn> "The short form is that my biggest worry upon starting Legend was that we'd get sued by the litigious new owners of (what was left of) Infocom. So I wrote up specs for a new parser and black-boxed it out to an independent company. What came back was written in C, and we built our engine around it. All the Legend games were written in C until we migrated the engine to C++ for Blackstone."
[04:27] <grogbot> <eientei> Looks like Timelapse shares file formats with Starship Titanic, here's a disc with demos for both games (Titanic demo isn't in the engine) https://archive.org/details/Timelapse_and_Titanic_Demo_GTE_Entertainment_1996
[04:37] <eriktorbjorn> It's a shame that so few of the Legend Entertainment games are being sold now. I heard Bob Bates was trying to get the rights to them back, but I don't think he's involved with "Ziggurat Interactive". With so many of the games being adapted from other works, it's probably a rights mine field. Which is probably why GOG only has Timequest, the Spellcasting trilogy, Eric the Unready, Mission Critical and Superhero League of Hoboken.
[04:38] <eriktorbjorn> They did briefly have Death Gate, but it was removed.
[04:41] <eriktorbjorn> This is a nice (albeit incomplete) collection, if you can find it. But it's been many years since I tracked down one for myself, and I doubt it's gotten any easier since then: https://www.mobygames.com/game/lost-adventures-of-legend
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[04:57] <Endy> hah
[04:58] <Endy> Amused at how close that is to "The lost treasures of Infocom" collections
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[06:05] <eriktorbjorn> Endy: I should replay those games some day. I remember really liking the Gateway games.
[06:08] <eriktorbjorn> I want to like Callahan's Crosstime Saloon, but I can't completely forgive that the game starts with a quiz (not copy protection) that's completely not my area of expertise. :P
[06:09] <eriktorbjorn> You're supposed to take a set of words and figure out names of bands, e.g. "Irritate; occupied to capacity; lifeless" becomes "grateful dead".
[06:12] <Endy> eriktorbjorn: Ouch, especially for anyone playing who is ESL... more like a riddle than a quiz :)
[06:12] <Endy> Sounds like a Josh Mandel move tho lol
[06:13] <eriktorbjorn> Yeah, I had forgotten but the game does call them riddles too.
[06:18] <eriktorbjorn> Without a walkthrough, I'm double screwed because I'm not sure I'd recognize these bands even if I saw the answers. :P
[06:20] <eriktorbjorn> Though I guess the game gives you some clues if you talk to the right people.
[06:24] <Scummette> [scummvm] scott-t pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Ji0Tj
[06:24] <Scummette> scummvm/master f0a7d41 scott-t: GROOVIE: Fix ROQ decoder for certain CLAN videos
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[08:41] <Scummette> [scummvm] moralrecordings closed pull request #3469: DIRECTOR: add Windows Henachoco games (master...director_add_win_itachoco) https://git.io/JiWUZ
[08:42] <Scummette> [scummvm] moralrecordings pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Ji275
[08:42] <Scummette> scummvm/master 15d5416 mistydemeo: DIRECTOR: Add Windows Henachoco games
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[08:58] <grogbot> <mduggan> No problem, glad to hear someone enjoys it! The Pentagram team did most of the fundamental work, I just tinkered away at Crusader for the last.. 2 years now ..
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[09:21] <Scummette> [scummvm] Die4Ever pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JiVYN
[09:21] <Scummette> scummvm/master 01de55b Die4Ever: GROOVIE: beehive tests WIP
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[10:05] <grogbot> <ecto> 2 years already! Time flies... I know how exited I got when U8 support was announced. Although I compiled Pentagram for Rasberry Pi 4 myself, there were a lot of bugs left iirc.
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[10:09] <grogbot> <ecto> And now that Crusader finally works with Pentagram is simply stunning. If you don't mind me asking: what has to be done to get No Regret working?
[10:10] <grogbot> <ecto> I only played No Remorse back in the day, but now I have both games on my GOG account, waiting to be played. But I will hold off until it's fully supported, too. Maybe I'll even wait until mouse support is implemented. 😉
[10:12] <Scummette> [scummvm] alxpnv pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JiwdA
[10:12] <Scummette> scummvm/master dbad3d6 alxpnv: ASYLUM: generalize handling of multipage dialogs
[10:17] <grogbot> <mduggan> I fixed some pretty hard to find bugs in U8 support along the way too yeah, there are still a few left 🙂
[10:21] <grogbot> <mduggan> No Regret has a few things left before I'd call it done - it has some quite different NPC attack behaviour I haven't implemented, some animation transitions, and some other NPC behaviour around firing particular weapons. I think there are also some weird engine bugs - last time I tried I couldn't even finish the first level because something wouldn't trigger correctly
[10:24] <grogbot> <ecto> Ah, ok, thanks, that's good to know.
[10:25] <grogbot> <ecto> afair the originals (U8 and No Remorse) weren't too bug free to begin with 😉
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[12:03] <grogbot> <Henke37> can't be worse than sci
[12:57] <grogbot> <xesf> Little Big Adventure Series Source Code Official Released https://blog.2point21.com/p/devlog-releasing-lba-open-source
[13:03] <grogbot> <eientei> > Lastly, cheers to Alexandre, Adrien, the good people from ScummVM and our french friends from the M05 association who were kind enough to answer my questions!
[13:09] <grogbot> <trembyle> How helpful will this be for reimplementation? Were there major mysteries left to solve in that engine?
[13:10] <grogbot> <mgerhardy> the lba1 engine should be complete. it will help to maybe fix some of the bugs - but it will definitely help for implementing lba2
[13:11] <eriktorbjorn> They're under GPL version 2. Nice.
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[14:20] <grogbot> <SupSuper> that is a lot of assembly
[14:39] <grogbot> <eientei> Oh neat, the files themselves are still in cp437 DOS encoding
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[14:49] <grogbot> <sev> @trembyle yes. See the recent holomap-related commits by @mgerhardy
[14:49] <grogbot> <sev> he was able to bugfix it big time
[14:49] <grogbot> <sev> and I believe, he will look into the LBA2 support as well
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[15:22] <grogbot> <trembyle> awesome
[15:26] <Scummette> [scummvm] athrxx pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-5: https://git.io/JiSTq
[15:26] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-5 723ed5d benoit-pierre: KYRA: (LOL) - fix invalid use after free
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[16:00] <Scummette> [scummvm] trembyle pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Ji9om
[16:00] <Scummette> scummvm/master 32ec72f trembyle: DIRECTOR: Add detection for first Fuzzy Floppy
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[16:10] <grogbot> <xesf> created a PR to fix that for LBA1, haven't done it yet for LBA2
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[16:11] <grogbot> <eientei> nice
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[16:18] <sev> yay, I finally got my proper nick!
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[16:30] <grogbot> <eientei> \o/
[16:36] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Wow, Clandestiny's videos now seem to play perfectly! Well done!
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[16:38] <grogbot> <MultimediaMike> The Fixer came through with an analysis; not sure how it squares with the findings of folks posted on this channel: https://codecs.multimedia.cx/2021/10/looking-at-roq/
[16:42] <grogbot> <MultimediaMike> whatever was found, would be nice it we could write it down
[16:43] <grogbot> <MultimediaMike> please point to a git commit that I could study, if available
[16:47] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/JiQDV
[16:47] <Scummette> scummvm/master a5a3027 sev-: GROOVIE: Fix the comparison
[16:47] <Scummette> scummvm/master 08b473b sev-: GROOVIE: Fix more copy/paste errors
[16:47] <Scummette> scummvm/master d93b9fc sev-: GROOVIE: Clarify logical expression precedence
[16:47] <grogbot> <antoniou79> I think it's this commit: https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/commit/f0a7d41001aee85d7a3d5aaa70b16dfb9d112285 And as noted in the commit message
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[17:30] <Scummette> [scummvm] lotharsm pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Ji5CR
[17:30] <Scummette> scummvm/master 5540f2e lotharsm: NEWS: Update German NEWS file
[18:13] <grogbot> <eriktorbjorn> On the subject of Groovie, there's a (probably known) glitch with the 11th hour cursors, but I guess it may be a limitation in ScummVM's cursor handling? In the original (right), the pupil of the eye is solid black, but in ScummVM (left) it becomes transparent.
[18:13] <grogbot> <eriktorbjorn> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/902984746911539200/11th-cursors.png
[18:13] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jidll
[18:13] <Scummette> scummvm/master a027247 sev-: GROOVIE: Fix GCC warning
[18:15] <eriktorbjorn> sev: I believe that last beehive.cpp commit changed the behavior, but if so I guess that was deliberate?
[18:21] <grogbot> <sev> Umm, I think, @Die4Ever will take a look. It is his code
[18:23] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> it's good
[18:27] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> I'll check out that cursor thing
[18:31] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> the hack where we check based on the filename was actually because that's what the original game is doing, we'll have to see if this works though "I think its when the first chunk size is zero instead of minus one"
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[19:26] <grogbot> <Strangerke> Check ShadowCaster. I think it's the last title released using IdTech0
[19:29] <Scummette> [scummvm] antoniou79 pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JiF6V
[19:29] <Scummette> scummvm/master 16a83c4 antoniou79: BLADERUNNER: RC - Move line about real dogs
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[20:09] <Scummette> [scummvm] aquadran pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JibIh
[20:09] <Scummette> scummvm/master 06b5c25 aquadran: TINYGL: Fixed index in arrays and expanded to other data types.
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[20:26] <Scummette> [scummvm] aquadran pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jibc3
[20:26] <Scummette> scummvm/master 7a4b769 aquadran: PLAYGROUND3D: Added dimming test using vertex arrays
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[20:45] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JibgC
[20:45] <Scummette> scummvm/master 4f3b536 sev-: SAGA2: Replace unsafe function with proper implementation
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[21:05] <Scummette> [scummvm] aquadran pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jib15
[21:05] <Scummette> scummvm/master 862bd7d aquadran: GRAPHICS: Move FrameLimiter from engines to common graphics code
[21:05] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jib1p
[21:05] <Scummette> scummvm/master a0cd941 : I18N: Update translations templates
[21:09] <grogbot> <madmoose> @Die4Ever I prefer solutions that recreate what the original games did, but I guess ffmpeg can't really depend on that.
[21:18] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> For ffmpeg, I guess it could always just be a command line option, maybe you could try to auto detect it by seeing if the Clandestiny method puts any motion vectors out of bounds?
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[21:22] <grogbot> <madmoose> @Die4Ever It would be the other way around for the intro video we debugged, the motion vectors are too small unless we scale them up.
[21:24] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- closed pull request #3450: Music manager refactoring (master...musicMan) https://git.io/JiOEF
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[22:09] Nick change: _sev -> sev
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