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[10:36] <grogbot> <eriktorbjorn> Anyone around who has the Amiga and/or Atari ST versions of Loom? I'd be interested to know if the music uses the same IDs as the EGA and Mac versions.
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[14:27] <grogbot> <treloret> @eriktorbjorn https://imslp.org seems to have some creative commons parts of it in midi.
[14:36] <eriktorbjorn> treloret: https://musopen.org/music/42995-swan-lake-op-20/ has some recordings it claims to be creative commons as well, though the comments mention people making copyright claims on them anyway.
[14:38] <eriktorbjorn> And of course, the printed score should long since have entered the public domain, though I lack the skill to produce anything useful from that.
[14:39] <eriktorbjorn> For my own use, I can of course use the CD of the ballet I bought many, many years ago.
[14:41] <grogbot> <eientei> If you don't care about copyright, there's digitisations of recordings made of the ballet made from the '60s on IA
[14:43] <grogbot> <eientei> Apologies, 1954 from the Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra
[14:43] <grogbot> <eientei> Probably unlikely to go after you
[14:43] <grogbot> <antoniou79> I have a CD that was distributed by a Greek newspaper back in the 90s. But it does not contain the full ballet, just six tracks. The orchestra is Berlin Philarmonic/Herbert Von Karajan. With a quick search it seems these six tracks are usually distributed as a CD as excerpts from the ballet. But unfortunately they don't cover all the tracks Loom needs.
[14:46] <eriktorbjorn> eientei: Since I was mainly wondering if there was a version that could be distributed on the ScummVM web site, I'd have to worry about copyright. Otherwise (assuming, of course, that the pull request is accepted) I guess we'd just have to write detailed instructions on which parts to use for people who own both the game and a copy of the ballet.
[14:46] <grogbot> <eientei> Now known as the Minnesota Orchestra, their Spotify discography only goes back to 1960
[14:46] <grogbot> <treloret> Any recording pre-50s should be ok.
[14:46] <grogbot> <antoniou79> yeah, we'd have to be sure
[14:49] <eriktorbjorn> Wikipedia says the first complete recording was made in 1953.
[14:52] <grogbot> <eientei> Yeah, lines up with what IA has digitised
[14:53] <grogbot> <eientei> Only those pre-1923. Starting this year, recorded music is finally starting to become PD, similar to how books are
[14:53] <grogbot> <treloret> Damn, Sonny Bono ruined it.
[14:54] <eriktorbjorn> Oh well, hopefully ScummVM will still be around in 30 years. :-)
[14:54] <grogbot> <treloret> And discogs only has 1930s recordings of Swan Lake.
[14:54] <grogbot> <treloret> So that's still 10 years away.
[14:56] <eriktorbjorn> Anyway, other than needing to play through the game (which I haven't had time to do), I think the only thing that remains to be done on that pull request is to figure out if it can be extended to the Amiga and Atari ST versions as well.
[14:57] <grogbot> <treloret> Maybe someone could beg James Woodcock, the sheet music should be PD at least.
[14:57] <grogbot> <eientei> If it weren't for the Music Modernization Act (2018), none of the recordings would even be PD
[14:58] <grogbot> <eientei> As the scans on IMSLP are from 1900, they're very safely PD
[14:58] <grogbot> <treloret> Was that the one that gave Happy Birthday it's well deserved pension?
[15:00] <grogbot> <eientei> Don't believe so
[15:01] <grogbot> <eientei> Also regarding copyright: since Tchaikovsky died >100 years ago, his works are PD as long as they were published pre-1927 (current PD cutoff date)
[15:01] <grogbot> <eientei> * PD worldwide
[15:01] <grogbot> <eientei> Yes, there's at least one country that has copyright of life+99
[15:06] <grogbot> <eientei> That one came from a lawsuit that ended in 2015
[15:06] <grogbot> <Henke37> personally i think that games from before i was born should be PD somewhen during my lifetime
[15:07] <grogbot> <eientei> tl;dr: Warner Chappell claimed copyright, turns out they didn't have copyright over the lyrics or melody, only a specific piano arrangement
[15:08] <grogbot> <eientei> If copyright length were like patents, games from 2007 would be PD now
[15:09] <grogbot> <Henke37> and that would be fine with me
[15:14] <grogbot> <eientei> Imagine if game copyrights were like franchise licensed where you had to make sure it was available otherwise it becomes PD...
[15:14] <grogbot> <treloret> ScummVM would be financed up the wazoo.
[15:16] <grogbot> <Khvostik> Can copyright owner with creator make something PD before it becomes PD by law?
[15:17] <grogbot> <treloret> They'd better, else the freeware games on the ScummVM page have serious issues.
[15:18] <grogbot> <Henke37> depends on the local law.
[15:18] <grogbot> <Henke37> but i don't know of a locale where you can't just grant free distribution to anyone.
[15:19] <grogbot> <djsrv> CC0 lets you make a work effectively public domain in jurisdictions where you can't release it into the actual public domain https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/
[15:24] <grogbot> <Khvostik> Interesting. Well, if I'll ever become a billionaire, what I will do is to buy rights on old games and make them PD and publish a source code
[15:27] <grogbot> <treloret> Activision might be a bit too expensive 😛
[15:41] <eriktorbjorn> I guess we'll just have to re-score Loom with Tom Lehrer songs: https://tomlehrersongs.com/ :-)
[15:41] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Just ordered the 2-disc ballet (Naxos) from discogs, it wasn't that expensive so I figured why not. Hopefully, I'll be able to make it work with @eriktorbjorn PR!
[15:43] <eriktorbjorn> antoniou79: That's probably the one I have as well: https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.550246-47
[15:43] <grogbot> <antoniou79> This is also available from Spotify, for anyone who wants to check it out quickly. And apparently it's available digitally from Amazon music, as mp3s but it won't let me buy it for some reason
[15:43] <grogbot> <antoniou79> exactly!
[15:44] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Here it is on Amazon music: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06X9YXQXG/ref=dm_ws_pr_fl_dp_B06X9YXQXG and here on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/3yFuxFoQo9B5RMWiaHwUfe
[15:46] <grogbot> <Retrodude> It really would be nice if some orchestra somewhere took it upon themselves to make explicitly public domain recordings of classical music for purposes like this
[15:47] <eriktorbjorn> antoniou79: Some of the songs are part of longer tracks, but I used Audacity to extract the bits I wanted.
[15:48] <grogbot> <antoniou79> good to know!
[15:49] <eriktorbjorn> antoniou79: I tried to list which tracks I used in the pull request. Not by number, of course, but by name.
[16:25] <grogbot> <treloret> Ooh, gotta hurry with the Tom Lehrer stuff, open until 2024.
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[16:47] <grogbot> <antoniou79> eriktorbjorn: nice! I look forward to testing this
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[17:16] <grogbot> <somaen> PD != Freeware
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[20:20] <grogbot> <Retrodude> Come to think of it re: pre-recorded music for Loom, I wonder if The Fatman might have made recordings of his transcriptions of the Swan Lake pieces to use as a reference or something. He seems to be one of the few game audio people from that era to keep a halfway decent personal archive of his work at the least.
[20:21] <grogbot> <Retrodude> They wouldn't be truly symphonic by any means, but they'd certainly be closest to how he intended the game to sound
[20:42] <grogbot> <HungryCavalier> Brian Moriarty has stated that they used Seiji Ozawa's recording of Swan Lake as reference for the game, so if one wanted to make their own personal enhanced soundtrack, that's definitely what they should use.
[20:42] <grogbot> <HungryCavalier> Source: https://youtu.be/z1aVDael-KM?t=2201
[21:13] <grogbot> <eientei> iirc Sony did that
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[23:15] <grogbot> <treloret> @somaen My bad.
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[00:00] --- Fri Jan 21 2022