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[02:29] <grogbot> <Auster> Is it possible to run the MacVenture games from the Macintosh on ScummVM? https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Where_to_get_the_games implies it's possible, but each game's pages say it isn't.
[02:31] <grogbot> <SupSuper> afaik the macventure engine is a work in progress
[02:31] <grogbot> <Auster> Ah, I see.
[02:32] <grogbot> <SupSuper> they're probably listed there in case you wanna try them or help out, but it could be clearer
[02:32] <grogbot> <Auster> I see.
[02:32] <grogbot> <Auster> Are there any forks or updates pending merging that at least recognize the games?
[02:33] <grogbot> <Auster> I already managed to extract the assets, but the latest version of ScummVM can't recognize them.
[02:34] <grogbot> <SupSuper> you can see if the nightlies detect it, there was also some done work this year pending merging: https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/pull/3168
[02:34] <grogbot> <Auster> Thanks.
[02:34] <grogbot> <Auster> By the way, would ScummVM require a specific checksum?
[02:35] <grogbot> <trembyle> I have a pending PR that adds Uninvited as a game ID, although I only have detection for the demo listed.
[02:35] <grogbot> <SupSuper> it does, though it'll alert you if it recognizes a file with a different checksum
[02:35] <grogbot> <Auster> I see. Then I guess it wouldn't help much for the versions I got, Humble Bundle and Steam's.
[02:36] <grogbot> <trembyle> I think I got Shadowgate from Steam a couple years ago and was able to detect it.
[02:36] <grogbot> <trembyle> My understanding is that any modern release comes the Zojoi re-releases.
[02:37] <grogbot> <trembyle> Do you have a link to the version you got from Steam?
[02:37] <grogbot> <SupSuper> i assume it's these: https://store.steampowered.com/sub/59404/
[02:38] <grogbot> <Auster> Yes
[02:38] <grogbot> <SupSuper> there's multiple versions so they're probably wrapped in a bunch of stuff
[02:38] <grogbot> <Auster> And I also got the DRM free from Humble Bundle (Humble Widgets, to be precise).
[02:38] <grogbot> <trembyle> Those sure are colorful ... I guess they built a new interpreter for these.
[02:40] <grogbot> <Auster> You can also get the Apple IIGS disk images from the HB and Steam versions, although I don't think ScummVM supports them.
[02:40] <grogbot> <trembyle> No, those are not supported. Only the Mac versions are even detected.
[02:40] <grogbot> <trembyle> There were some recent updates that should make them more playable.
[02:41] <grogbot> <trembyle> I seem to recall that I had to extract resources from the EXE. Is that what you did?
[02:41] <grogbot> <Auster> Yes
[02:41] <grogbot> <Auster> And they work in emulators.
[02:41] <grogbot> <trembyle> Let me make sure that mine still work in ScummVM. It's been a while since I've tried.
[02:42] <grogbot> <Auster> Did you extract the assets from the disk image or can it load the .dsk file?
[02:42] <grogbot> <trembyle> I probably extracted the files from the dsk image.
[02:43] <grogbot> <SupSuper> if you're curious here's the detection entries: https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/blob/master/engines/macventure/detection.cpp
[02:43] <grogbot> <trembyle> Also, do you have macventure.dat? That's not needed for detection, but it will be necessary to run the games.
[02:43] <grogbot> <trembyle> It will come with most ScummVM distributions.
[02:43] <grogbot> <Auster> Hmm, mine shows another md5sum.
[02:44] <grogbot> <trembyle> You're checking the first 5000 bytes?
[02:44] <grogbot> <Auster> How does it work? I usually just use "md5sum [file name]"
[02:45] <grogbot> <trembyle> https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php?title=Reporting_unknown_MD5_checksums#Manually
[02:45] <grogbot> <SupSuper> well if the filename matches it should detect it. make sure macventure is listed in the About screen, if not you need to grab a scummvm snapshot (latest, not stable)
[02:46] <grogbot> <trembyle> I can confirm that the distribution that I purchased from Steam two years ago is still recognized now.
[02:46] <grogbot> <trembyle> for Shadowgate
[02:48] <grogbot> <Auster> Is there a text file version of this screen?
[02:48] <grogbot> <trembyle> Ah, did you extract the files from the disk in MacBinary format?
[02:48] <grogbot> <trembyle> The resource forks are important to preserve.
[02:48] <grogbot> <Auster> I think I lost focus hafl way through the auto scroll.
[02:48] <grogbot> <Auster> Game executable as MacBinary 2, yes.
[02:49] <grogbot> <Auster> The others I extracted as data fork according to the tutorial I found.
[02:50] <grogbot> <trembyle> The detection entry actually has a .bin extension. This is not really standard and should probably be fixed.
[02:50] <grogbot> <trembyle> Does your executable end in .bin?
[02:50] <grogbot> <Auster> Yes
[02:51] <grogbot> <Auster> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/888619484099801118/unknown.png
[02:52] <grogbot> <trembyle> Per @SupSuper's point, are you running a snapshot build?
[02:52] <grogbot> <Auster> Not yet.
[02:52] <grogbot> <trembyle> The stable builds will not run MacVenture games.
[02:52] <grogbot> <trembyle> It sounds like you have everything else in order though.
[02:54] <grogbot> <Auster> Extracting the assets as data fork instead of resource forks wouldn't cause problems?
[02:54] <grogbot> <trembyle> I'm actually not positive about that. I'd probably use MacBin format (which includes both data & resource forks).
[02:55] <grogbot> <trembyle> In this case it might not matter. There seems to be some variation between engines though.
[02:58] <grogbot> <Auster> =D
[02:58] <grogbot> <Auster> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/888621229400031312/unknown.png
[02:58] <grogbot> <trembyle> awesome
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[03:00] <grogbot> <Auster> Text is a bit broken, but getting the game to work is awesome already 🥳
[03:00] <grogbot> <Auster> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/888621594375774268/unknown.png
[03:00] <grogbot> <trembyle> To get the exactly right formatting, you need classicmacfonts.dat. Unfortunately this can presently only be legally extracted on a Mac
[03:01] <grogbot> <trembyle> There might also be a dat file for MACGUI ... checking
[03:01] <grogbot> <Auster> No open source alternatives like in PSP emulation?
[03:02] <grogbot> <trembyle> The fallback font is pretty good, but the OS fonts themselves are still under Apple's copyright.
[03:02] <grogbot> <Auster> I see.
[03:02] <grogbot> <Auster> It would be so good if they did like Cloanto and sold their old OS's...
[03:03] <grogbot> <Auster> The oldest Macintosh released is older than most people I know.
[03:03] <grogbot> <Auster> Soon, no one will be able to extract these assets legally anymore.
[03:03] <grogbot> <trembyle> I think your build probably has macventure.dat and macgui.dat, but if not you can download those from the website.
[03:04] <grogbot> <trembyle> If you are using a Mac, there is a website that Apple make available. The assumption is that you have a legal copy of Mac OS / OS X / macOS.
[03:05] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 78821f2 : I18N: Update translation files
[03:05] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 f572343 : I18N: Update translations templates
[03:05] <Scummette> [scummvm] Die4Ever pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JzIOw
[03:05] <Scummette> scummvm/master b4aa9a6 Die4Ever: GROOVIE: connect four puzzle with dumb AI
[03:06] <grogbot> <Auster> Github or Buildbot?
[03:06] <grogbot> <trembyle> They're probably in a few places. Just check if they were in the package that you downloaded.
[03:07] <grogbot> <Auster> They're not.
[03:07] <grogbot> <trembyle> looking for a link ...
[03:08] <grogbot> <Auster> This? https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/blob/master/dists/engine-data/macventure.dat
[03:08] <grogbot> <trembyle> yes
[03:09] <grogbot> <Auster> Just didn't find macgui.dat
[03:09] <grogbot> <Auster> Nvm
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[03:10] <grogbot> <Auster> Just had to check a folder up.
[03:12] <grogbot> <Auster> Sorry, but where do I put these data files?
[03:12] <grogbot> <trembyle> either in the same directory as the scummvm executable, or in the extrapath specified in your config file.
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[09:18] <Scummette> [scummvm] Die4Ever closed pull request #3360: BASE: Don't check for config key presence when loading gfx mode (master...fix-register-default-filtering) https://git.io/JurXO
[09:18] <Scummette> [scummvm] Die4Ever pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JzLam
[09:18] <Scummette> scummvm/master 74d4380 lotharsm: BASE: Don't check for config key presence when loading gfx mode
[09:24] <Scummette> [scummvm] lotharsm pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JzLVV
[09:24] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 baea6eb lotharsm: BASE: Don't check for config key presence when loading gfx mode
[09:24] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 2 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JzLVr
[09:24] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 3c52573 : I18N: Update translation files
[09:24] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 1418bb7 : I18N: Update translations templates
[09:30] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JzLrk
[09:44] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 f358e7f lotharsm: I18N: Update translation (German)
[09:44] <Scummette> [scummvm] bluegr pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JzL6o
[09:44] <Scummette> scummvm/master 0c67b43 bluegr: GROOVIE: Further work on the 11H gallery puzzle
[09:52] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- closed pull request #3348: ENGINES: Move all custom engine options dialogs into the engine plugin (master...engine-options-dynamic) https://git.io/JumC6
[09:52] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/JzLP8
[09:52] <Scummette> scummvm/master 39b04a1 ccawley2011: NANCY: Remove dead code
[09:52] <Scummette> scummvm/master 06cd9b6 ccawley2011: AGS: Move the engine options into the engine plugin
[09:52] <Scummette> scummvm/master afe9a80 ccawley2011: SCI: Move the engine options into the engine plugin
[09:57] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JzLXK
[09:57] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 76d3bf5 sev-: I18N: Update translation (Russian)
[09:57] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 2 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JzLXP
[09:57] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 f02fc7f Timpii: I18N: Update translation (Finnish)
[09:57] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 5f8541d sev-: I18N: Update translation (Ukrainian)
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[12:30] <grogbot> <gu3> A shoutout to @trembyle for their research looking for new demos! It will allows to play one more level from another Wetland demo in the upcoming scummvm engine! (screenshot shows some preliminary work using it)
[12:30] <grogbot> <gu3> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/888765164122419200/unknown.png
[12:44] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/Jztcn
[12:44] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 81d138d IlDucci: I18N: Update translation (Spanish)
[12:44] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JztcC
[13:33] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 e477edc goodoldgeorge: I18N: Update translation (Hungarian)
[13:33] <Scummette> [scummvm] moralrecordings opened pull request #3379: DIRECTOR: Add case-insensitive path checking (master...director_autodetect) https://git.io/Jzt2a
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[14:22] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/Jzt1D
[14:22] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 2f84b45 antoniou79: I18N: Update translation (Greek)
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[15:19] <Scummette> [scummvm] moralrecordings pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jztx4
[15:19] <Scummette> scummvm/master 6717d7e moralrecordings: DIRECTOR: Add case-insensitive path checking
[15:19] <Scummette> [scummvm] moralrecordings closed pull request #3379: DIRECTOR: Add case-insensitive path checking (master...director_autodetect) https://git.io/Jzt2a
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[16:31] <Scummette> [scummvm] moralrecordings pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jzqtc
[16:31] <Scummette> scummvm/master 27d5f92 moralrecordings: DIRECTOR: LINGO: Make b_string output valid Lingo for ARRAY and PARRAY
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[21:30] <Scummette> [scummvm] Die4Ever pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JzqdD
[21:30] <Scummette> scummvm/master 8c25108 Die4Ever: GROOVIE: more cake work
[21:32] <grogbot> <trembyle> @dianiu you made cake work?
[21:32] <grogbot> <trembyle> @Die4Ever you made cake work?
[21:32] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> haha sort of, it uses dumb AI, but otherwise it works
[21:33] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/blob/8c25108b2c45f93c5c12c4ad43ca4ec870fdc5cc/engines/groovie/logic/t11hgame.cpp#L187-L195 truly the pinnacle of artificial intelligence 🤣
[21:34] <grogbot> <trembyle> Is this is UHP?
[21:34] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> 11th Hour
[21:40] <grogbot> <trembyle> Nice! How close do you think 11th Hour is to being completable?
[21:42] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> it's currently "completable" but the AI puzzles aren't good yet
[21:44] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> mouse trap you have to skip because it doesn't do anything yet gallery puzzle works but the AI is not authentic and it's a bit easier than the original game chapel puzzle you have to skip beehive you have to skip cake works but the AI isn't nearly as smart as the original game pente you have to skip
[21:44] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> but yea I've beaten the game
[21:44] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> bluegr has been working on the beehive, I've been working on the cake
[21:45] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> I've never done reverse engineering before, it's pretty time consuming to make these authentic lol
[21:45] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> if I just wanted to make a decent AI it'd be way faster, but I wanna make it authentic to the original
[21:49] <grogbot> <Henke37> i can only hope that the ai doesn't scale based on processor speed.
[21:49] <grogbot> <Henke37> i hear that was a problem with the blobs in the predecessor.
[21:49] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> pretty sure that was a myth
[21:50] <grogbot> <Henke37> oh?
[21:50] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> I think so
[21:50] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> speedrunning T7G, I always use the same microscope solution, it's 33 moves
[21:51] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> done it on multiple computers and laptops too
[21:53] <grogbot> <Henke37> huh.
[21:57] <grogbot> <trembyle> I think that myth can't up because that puzzle is particularly difficult.
[21:58] <grogbot> <trembyle> So people wanted to blame it on some external factor.
[22:00] <grogbot> <Henke37> makes sense
[22:00] <grogbot> <Die4Ever> probably lol
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[22:18] <Scummette> [scummvm] SupSuper opened pull request #3380: WINTERMUTE: Replace convert_utf with built-in conversions (master...wintermute-utf8) https://git.io/Jzqht
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