[01:01] dreammaster (~dreammast@c-73-241-66-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #scummvm. [01:01] #scummvm: mode change '+o dreammaster' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [01:16] _dreammaster (~dreammast@c-73-241-66-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #scummvm. [01:16] #scummvm: mode change '+o _dreammaster' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [01:17] dreammaster (~dreammast@c-73-241-66-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [01:34] Nick change: _dreammaster -> dreammaster [01:53] All of them because theres a virtual keyboard that you can control with game pad [01:54] So if you need to enter something you can use the virtual keyboard. Thats whybScummVM works great on PSP/Vita/Switch without keyboard or mouse. [01:54] Just make sure you dont use the Retroarch core it is outdated, buggy, and input is broken. Use official builds from ScummVM buildbot or ScummVM release [01:56] And the mouse is controlled using the left thumb stick on your gamepad. So theres really no need for keyboard mouse [01:57] However this advanced gamepad control is only implemented in ScummVM ports that use the SDL2 library backend. It rests on the SDL Game Controller Concept for input. [01:58] The mouse speed and joystick deadzlne can be adjusted in settings... [01:58] how about if all you have is a textbased command line? like for say, twitch plays [01:59] It is possible but it will be very slow to type a lot of text using your gamepad and the virtual keyboard. [01:59] i meant that you don't have a gamepad, just the command line [02:00] Oh. No that is not possible. You need either a gamepad (ideally a gamepad that works with SDL game controller interface) or keyboard+mouse. [02:00] unless you're playing a text-only game, you'd still need to move your character for text-parser games [02:01] a general command line for every single adventure game would be a hell of an effort [02:02] the way i see it is that point and click can work fine if you can translate names into objects to click [02:02] The Vita/Switch/PSP Ports have a hardcodes mapping from native controller to SDL game Controller buttons. On Linux and Windows, I think the SDL game Controller support keeps increasing theres even a user database with many pre-defined mappings from controller to SDL game controller that can be used I think. [05:30] LeChuck joined #scummvm. [05:30] Begasus (~begasus@ptr-4qba4ebqper9c246rlb.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) joined #scummvm. [05:34] Begas_VBox (~Begasus@d54c05bea.access.telenet.be) joined #scummvm. [05:57] yuv422 (~yuv422@119-18-0-84.771200.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) joined #scummvm. 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[07:44] #scummvm: mode change '+o whiterandrek_' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [07:47] whiterandrek (~CVoltage@ppp-109-104-179-20.wildpark.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [08:00] NULUSIOS (nls@mail2.termoil.com) left #scummvm. [08:26] Toonstruck is currently free on GOG https://www.gog.com/game/toonstruck [08:38] whiterandrek_ (~CVoltage@ppp-109-104-179-20.wildpark.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [08:40] whiterandrek (~CVoltage@ppp-109-104-179-20.wildpark.net) joined #scummvm. [08:40] #scummvm: mode change '+o whiterandrek' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [08:50] ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [08:58] Harekiet (~harekiet@2001:41d0:a:37e5::4adc:4c6a) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [09:06] Unseen2 (snowcat@snowcat.de) left irc: Quit: Gone. [09:06] Unseen2 (snowcat@snowcat.de) joined #scummvm. 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[14:05] yuv422 (~yuv422@119-18-0-84.771200.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds [14:21] ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) joined #scummvm. [14:23] SupSuper (~SupSuper@openxcom/dev/supsuper) joined #scummvm. [14:34] girafe2 (~girafe@lfbn-lyo-1-450-7.w2-7.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #scummvm. [14:38] girafe (~girafe@lfbn-lyo-1-450-7.w2-7.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [14:40] Drenn (~Drenn@toroon0717w-lp130-07-70-52-223-40.dsl.bell.ca) joined #scummvm. [15:42] ny00123 (~ny00123@213.137.91.233) joined #scummvm. [16:02] Asterisk (~asterisk@unaffiliated/asterisk) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [16:10] Asterisk (~asterisk@unaffiliated/asterisk) joined #scummvm. [16:23] Littleboy (~littleboy@pool-71-162-119-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) left irc: Quit: �tre dans le vent, une ambition de feuille morte. [16:26] DominusExult (~dominus@port-92-196-82-25.dynamic.qsc.de) joined #scummvm. [16:26] DominusExult (~dominus@port-92-196-82-25.dynamic.qsc.de) left irc: Changing host [16:26] DominusExult (~dominus@unaffiliated/dominus) joined #scummvm. [16:29] Dominus (~dominus@unaffiliated/dominus) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds [16:29] Nick change: DominusExult -> Dominus [17:00] cambiar las notificaciones por defecto [17:00] creo que teneis puesto avisar a todos los usuarios de todo, es un poco rollo [17:00] 😛 [17:07] i think he's complaining about the server having notifications on for all messages by default [17:08] yeah [17:08] YEP [17:08] So that's where these random notifications are coming from... [17:08] @sev is probably the only one that can change that [17:08] Why is this a server and not a client setting is beyond me. [17:08] i can turr off the notifications, no problem, but this could be irrititating for some users [17:08] it's also a client setting [17:09] its like every message is that @ everyone thing [17:09] Any idea how to turn it off in the client settings? [17:10] yes [17:10] click on the server name, select notification settings [17:10] if you right-click on the server, there should be notifications or something in there [17:10] thats it [17:10] i think its by default send notifications to everyone [17:10] Oh, I see it now. Thank you! [17:11] i have a server too and i changed that [17:11] people was complaining also [17:11] I was looking in the wrong settings. [17:11] yes, we probably should change this [17:11] Please do. [17:11] by the way i dont even know what is this server for, its somekind of emulator right ? XD [17:12] i saw this as a Core in RetroArch [17:12] a bunch of engine remimplementations [17:12] focusing on point and click adventure games [17:12] for lucas arts adventures games ? [17:12] that's the main draw yes [17:13] so old pc games are more modern [17:13] those ran on the scumm engine, thus the name [17:13] there are like 70 different game engines in the project by now [17:13] i saw it in retorarch as a core too [17:13] and like half of them are shipping [17:13] RetroArch [17:14] so basically what you are is adventures game fanatics no? hehe [17:14] more or less [17:14] https://www.scummvm.org/compatibility/ [17:15] thats nice [17:15] i like some adventures but i think is not scumm compatible [17:15] @whiterandrek pink is missing here [17:15] sanitarium is good [17:16] and recetly i played one that was very addictve [17:16] https://store.steampowered.com/app/352520/The_Silent_Age/ [17:16] that's a nice one [17:17] for 80 cents is a little but cute game [17:17] bit on the simple side tho. rarely any overlapping puzzles there [17:17] like Riven and Myst ???? [17:17] these games were nuts [17:17] games for very special people [17:17] with infinite patience [17:17] im not one of those XD [17:19] Compared to Riven, the first Myst game is really easy imho. Once you figured out what to do 😛 [17:20] myst is a lot of "oh, shiny graphics" [17:20] if you like Myst, graphics, of course [17:20] so many scenes with either nothing interactable or just one thing [17:20] otherwise it's just "Oooow! puke" [17:21] and myst only lets you carry one item at a time. which is clunky [17:21] Oh right, completely forgot how passionate you dislike Myst @Strangerke 😛 [17:21] one of us, one of us [17:22] Well, I don't understand why people appreciate games which could have been made using ms-paint and powerpoint... [17:22] @SupSuper wait what? 😛 [17:23] (if it's a game,... is it?) [17:23] yes, most people consider it a game [17:23] I don't 😃 [17:23] some people call it a walking simulator though 😛 [17:23] Except you teleport... [17:23] so eventually a teleportation simulator, indeed [17:23] hey, sometimes you get a pre-rendered walk 😉 [17:24] slow motion teleport 😛 [17:24] @rootfather i don't like myst-likes, not a big fan of the blind exploration genre [17:24] blind exploration is fine. lack of a purpose is not [17:25] The main issue is a feature [17:25] right. "here's some things, is it a puzzle, is it nothing, ??? good luck" [17:25] yep [17:25] "commit suicide" should be a fine option game [17:25] lol [17:25] @SupSuper yep, and figuring out what to do or how to interpret a scene (important information? random stuff?) is what I like about the series [17:26] and I honestly think you can either love it or hate it, but nothing in between [17:26] i want to see depth in the locations myself. more than what you'd find in an initial examination [17:26] a reason to revisit the locations [17:26] It depends, if the game is properly realized it may be interesting. Look at The Dig. You have to interpret everything, but it's fine [17:28] yup it's like walking simulators, very polarizing [17:29] to me a puzzle is "you have the pieces, you have the rules, figure it out" not "figure out the pieces, figure out the rules, just figure it all out" [17:29] @Strangerke except for this 😛 [17:29] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/589506888555823114/thedig.gif [17:32] I managed to completely erase this puzzle from my memory. Intriguing 😄 [17:33] suppressing trauma [17:38] I still remember Myst 😢 [17:42] i don't hate myst so much as myst-likes. there were so many bad clones. even sierra got in on it [17:43] combine with bad fmv and you got a fine mess [17:44] hey, I like Shivers 😛 [17:56] things that make you rage https://cs11.pikabu.ru/post_img/2018/07/06/7/1530873904175555465.png [17:57] ^this refrigerator [18:02] yuv422 (~yuv422@119-18-0-84.771200.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) joined #scummvm. [18:07] yuv422 (~yuv422@119-18-0-84.771200.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [18:12] I think myst WAS actually made in something like powerpoint. Some MacOS note keeping app or so. [18:13] Powercards or whatever it was called. [18:13] you mean HyperCard? [18:13] hypercard [18:13] Yes that [18:13] bunch of early mac adventures used it [18:13] no, it's not a valid excuse. Decent things were made using HyperCard [18:13] Like SupSuper said. [18:13] Name one [18:13] 😉 [18:13] Cosmic Osmo, The Manhole... [18:14] The manhole? Yes that was good ok I take it back. [18:14] did the macventure games use hypercard, i forget [18:14] afaik not [18:15] Mac gaming was so at odds with the rest of the world back then. E.g. Journeyman Project, Marathon LOL [18:15] Very strange stuff [18:19] Theres a few recurring rage things in adventures: illogical puzzles, puzzles where obvious solution doesnt work (use ladder on wall) because devs didnt realize or care that an obvious solution is present in inventory, room exits that are not clear (missing whole rooms because of that), one pixel sized objects with no hotspot indicators, missing one object in beginning and realizing you need it at the very end. Almost all adventures [18:19] commit at least one or two of those sins, and many are still great. [18:20] Future Wars is so atrocious with the single pixel objects, still an amazing game [18:21] after poking at engines i'm starting to wonder if pixel hunt objects were a result of "sloppy design" or "sloppy programming" [18:21] And useless mazes to make the game longer like in one of the KQ, and Ringworld [18:22] I recently finished Detroit on PS4 and was blown away what an excellent adventure it is. Really modern design, amazing story trees, allowing the player to see the trees... [18:23] And ponder the choices and try different ones really cool. However, it uses timed sequences a lot. I hate being under time pressure in adventures. And yes the endless and boring mazes are another trope [18:24] Adventure It is a strange genre, because of you do everything perfect, theres like no challenge and no game anymore. [18:24] what about forced action sequences 😛 more of a sierra thing i guess [18:25] In some sense The only difficulty in adventures is because the devs commit some of those sins otherwise everything would be logical, easy, and it would just be a movie more or less [18:25] So the fun is because the games are imperfect in some way, making them challenging [18:52] Yes, if you do everything "right" you get Full Throttle. However that's certainly not what I'm looking for. To me that's not a game, it's a cutscene. [18:54] i'm not sure i'd call that "right", it still had forced action sequences [18:57] Deledrius (~Deledrius@68.118.139.214) joined #scummvm. [18:58] I'm replaying the King's Quest series right now [19:00] full throttle has an entire sub engine for the bike segments [19:01] which is quite insane [19:01] less or more insane than the destruction derby at the end [19:01] that's my personal trauma [19:02] I don't remember it that clearly, I finished it in one sitting and never looked at Full Throttle again [19:02] that was a pun, the name of the engine is insane [19:02] nice [19:03] @waltervn iirc it was like doing bumper cars with point'n'click controls. though there have been so many dumb minigames in adventures i might be mixing some together [19:03] it falls in the same category as Conquests of the Longbow. There's just not enough substance to really make it memorable, to me anyway [19:03] tim schafer is really good at settings but his gameplay is always kinda bare [19:03] Leisure Suit Larry 5 is another one of these games... way too short and easy [19:04] i think they might've gone overboard with the video in the game too. a lot of the opening cutscene could've been traditional rooms [19:04] really, the same could be said about the comi opening too. [19:05] a good minute and a half of that opening is just the actual opening credits text screens [19:06] and there are a lot of shots of guybrush just writing in the bumpercar [19:06] i wonder if they could've squeezed the game onto one cd with smarter setups [19:07] jammm (~jam@unaffiliated/jamm) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [19:09] which is quite insane Classic of some old games: 1.Game start. menu is one engine 2.Start new game - cinematic on 2nd engine that runs by some separate player 3.In game third engine which is actual game engine Every transition game "restarts" by closing one window and start new one. Sometimes before start, game may have separate launcher additionaly. [19:14] some old games could have up to 10 separate EXEs, because you couldn't have much in memory [19:15] or coders just didn't like cooperating 😛 [19:21] cd (~none@gateway/tor-sasl/cd) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [19:23] @Zadroter game i'm reversing right now has that sorta weirdness. main menu exe is just a "launcher" that sets up the game exe. even pressing Load Game requires first launching the game exe, which starts a new game, then shows the load ui, which will discard the newly created game [19:25] Henke, it's easy to say they went overboard with the stunning animation now, but back then the whole point of it was to show off and do something pretty uncommon. [19:26] my point wasn't that they went overboard with animations. [19:26] I think FT and CoMI used it well. KQ7 OTOH shows what happens when you do that kind of thing without being able to pull it off. [19:26] my point was that they could've kept the same fidelity, but without bringing in a video codec. that is, for some of the scenes [19:26] Ahhhh [19:27] gotcha [19:27] Interesting. Most terrible idea I remember in this regard, is how it was in Star Wars Jedi Knight Dark Forces II "mysteries of the sith" addon. Meme that unlike original game which have real actors cutscenes, this have cutscenes made on engine, but instead of be in-game, this is video records of game, captured with very poor resolution and implemented like separate cinematics on different engine, addition to game menu feels like it is [19:27] different engine. And main game engine is Lucasarts "sith" engine which studio wierd 3d engine with very questionable physics. Late 90s in a nutshell. [19:27] Rendered as in-game "cutscenes" using rooms and sprites [19:28] reminds me of the terrible southpark game with even worse ports. in game cutscenes captured as video in the bad ports [19:28] haha, Zadroter, the old "pre-rendered, but using the game engine" thing [19:28] Begas_VBox (~Begasus@d54C05BEA.access.telenet.be) left irc: Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred! [19:28] @Henke37 i imagine porting the pre-rendered cgi into sprites would've been a hassle [19:29] which only look worse as hardware improves and the cutscenes end up looking terrible compared to the actual game and you wonder why they're pre-rendered at all [19:29] compared to just having your 3d software output a video [19:30] LucastArts "quality" https://youtu.be/UNfmSNmDd3E [19:31] ship it [19:31] Factor 5 they weren't [19:31] a lot of games did that just to make them easy to port, specially when they had to downgrade. a video will always play the same on any hardware. an ingame cutscene... who knows [19:33] i remember stuff like psp ports where the cutscenes looked a lot better than the game, because they were recordings from the original version. if they were particularly lazy you got tutorials from completely different versions 😃 [19:33] for those unaware, factor 5 did some really complicated and tricky game engines on the gamecube. dolphin, an emulator, is still struggling with dealing with all their trickery. [19:35] Like Donkey Kong 64 by Rare on N64, where when you get low fps game engine speeding up the game so you think it is runs smooth? 🙃 [19:36] cd (~none@gateway/tor-sasl/cd) joined #scummvm. [19:37] like paging out memory to audio ram to fit more data in work ram [19:38] Begasus (~begasus@ptr-4qba4ea1hkj4ho6htz3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat [19:38] or render the screen in two goes to two framebuffers because the video frame can't fit in video ram [19:41] Stalker game where sometimes feels like half of game files is txt documents in early versions and builds lol. The Elder Scrolls Daggerfall game, where from 600mb half of game files and scripts (or more) is unused cut content... I always like "magic" like thins 🤔 [19:41] dreammaster (~dreammast@c-73-241-66-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #scummvm. [19:41] #scummvm: mode change '+o dreammaster' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [19:41] you should check the dolphin blog. it has a lot of fun reading [19:45] for example, the times games got away with garbage memory addresses on hardware because it was masked out and fixed up [19:45] ludde (~b@host.62.65.78.45.bitcom.se) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [19:45] or the time it was too accurate in reporting sound position or... [19:46] ludde (~b@62.65.78.45) joined #scummvm. [19:58] Funny cases with Morrowind Gamybryo engine: I can read somehow some broken, bad and incorrect scripts. And when OpenMW done this part properly, some scripts from mods stoped working. Or broken by developers script, that make villian loose max HP if you kill some minions. If you fix this script, villan will have negative HP at start at will die right at spawn. [19:59] the eternal "is it a bug or a feature" dilemma [20:00] Bethesda coding after in late 90s main developers left team is pure example what would happen, if your company have only artists and marketing guys. [20:00] grep for WORKAROUND in the scummvm sources. [20:00] you will see that lucasarts aren't innocent either [20:05] Bethesda in 90s was crazy too. There was interview with Julian LeFay recently about Daggerfall. Daggerfall is probably most ambitious and most unfinished game ever, with only 2% of content in pre-alpha stage released as "final game" He was asked: "What will you do if you had additional month of development?" My thoughts: "finish what already was done, resolve crashes and at least some bugs, replace placeholders, fix scripts" Actual [20:05] answer: "I'd add a multiplayer! It would be cool!" [20:11] @Zadroter 2% of content in a game with procedural generation. Elder Scrolls didn't start with completely pre-designed levels until Morrowind. [20:12] It was not generated like in arena - generation in tes2 was used only to create game world once [20:13] When I said about 2% - it was not about lack of pre-set content [20:14] I see [20:14] It was about cut features, broken unfinished quests, missing textures etc. [20:15] From compleatly dynamic moons sprites to most parts of mainquest and mainquest locations. From broken skills to unjoinable factions. [20:15] People still in community did researches about what was unfinished, lol [20:16] People who transfer Daggerfall on Unity engine did great job of fixing things that was done, but was broken at least, making game much more playable. [20:16] ccawley2011 (6d9bb138@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.155.177.56) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [20:20] ccawley2011 (6d91bec7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.145.190.199) joined #scummvm. [20:20] #scummvm: mode change '+o ccawley2011' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [20:35] Deledrius (~Deledrius@68.118.139.214) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds [20:36] [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/fjaJ4 [20:36] scummvm/master 5f7955d dreammaster: GLK: ADVSYS: Tweak debug line, added input line prompt character [20:36] scummvm/master f7e389d dreammaster: GLK: ADVSYS: Fix parsing input words [20:36] scummvm/master f9f1293 dreammaster: GLK: ADVSYS: Input line processing fixes [20:41]