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[03:25] <Scummette> [scummvm] a-yyg pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Ju9HJ
[03:25] <Scummette> scummvm/master 0ff7c95 a-yyg: SAGA2: Add command to toggle original status messages
[05:10] <eriktorbjorn> antoniou79: The crash when entering the moster's cave with the big Neverhood demo appears to be it trying to load a resource that's not included in the demo. If I run the demo in Windows (well, Wine) it shows a "Thank yuo for playing the Neverhood demo" screen instead.
[05:10] <eriktorbjorn> (Sorry about the typo. That was mine.)
[05:27] <Scummette> [scummvm] eriktorbjorn pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JuHss
[05:27] <Scummette> scummvm/master 4a54e4b eriktorbjorn: NEVERHOOD: Don't crash when entering monster cave in the big demo
[05:34] <Scummette> [scummvm] eriktorbjorn pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JuHGK
[05:34] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 2f65e6d eriktorbjorn: NEVERHOOD: Don't crash when entering monster cave in the big demo
[05:34] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JuHGD
[05:34] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 c8de737 : I18N: Update translation files
[05:55] <Scummette> [scummvm] aquadran pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JuHCH
[05:55] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 dfb1dab aquadran: GRIM: Restore remastered game entry but add as not supported
[05:56] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JuHC7
[05:56] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 b407f45 : I18N: Update translations templates
[06:12] <Scummette> [scummvm] BenCastricum opened pull request #3366: SCUMM: Fix detection of HES collection on Steam (master...detection_fixes) https://git.io/JuH40
[06:17] <grogbot> <antoniou79> eriktorbjorn: Nice, thanks for fixing it. I think the other bug you submitted on the tracker could be the one I got, which I thought it was random (although my trace starts from the Neverhood::SoundMan::setSoundThreePlayFlag() call). Perhaps I pressed the Android back button accidentally (which acts as Esc by default) and didn't notice that this was what caused the game to crash.
[06:26] <eriktorbjorn> antoniou79: I'm not quite sure what to do about the other one, but I figure that as long as I fix one bug I get to file another one for free. ;-)
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[06:52] <grogbot> <antoniou79> yep, that's how it works 😄
[06:53] <grogbot> <antoniou79> It's good to know that it's not an Android specific bug with Neverhood. The seg fault I mean. I didn't really notice anything different with the visual quality of the videos
[06:54] <eriktorbjorn> There were some artifacts in the navigation videos when running in Wine, too, if that's what you meant. (And they're lower resolution than the rest of the game.)
[07:12] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Yes, there are artifacts. There's one outside "resting" (ie not moving) screen that is particularly glitchy (when looking away from the tree and (I think) have moved to the center of that area.
[07:14] <grogbot> <antoniou79> A user above, @eemes , reported that on Android when the cutscenes the game becomes blurry. I didn't have this experience on my Android device. The visuals in the cutscenes are of lower quality than the rest of the gameplay (ie inside a room) but not different than what I get on Windows.
[07:14] <grogbot> <antoniou79> But, again, I'm only testing with the big demo.
[08:24] <grogbot> <Henke37> want to see a stack trace for neverhood?
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[08:26] <grogbot> <Henke37> > scummvm.exe!Neverhood::SoundItem::setPlayOnceAfterCountdown(bool playOnceAfterCountdown) Line 110 C++ scummvm.exe!Neverhood::SoundMan::setSoundThreePlayFlag(bool playOnceAfterCountdown) Line 491 C++ scummvm.exe!Neverhood::NavigationScene::~NavigationScene() Line 63 C++ [External Code] scummvm.exe!Neverhood::Module::~Module() Line 40 C++ scummvm.exe!Neverhood::Module2600::~Module2600() Line 55
[08:26] <grogbot> C++ [External Code] scummvm.exe!Neverhood::GameModule::~GameModule() Line 88 C++ [External Code] scummvm.exe!Neverhood::NeverhoodEngine::run() Line 135 C++ Exception thrown: write access violation. **this** was nullptr.
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[08:26] <grogbot> <Henke37> i just closed the window after checking the fix was working.
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[08:41] <eriktorbjorn> Henke37: Sounds like the same as https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/12930 that I filed before.
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[08:42] <grogbot> <Henke37> that looks like it yes.
[08:44] <eriktorbjorn> I didn't realize until I just tried that one of the smaller Neverhood demos has music that I don't think appears in the final game.
[08:48] <eriktorbjorn> Henke37: Anyway, I take it that the crash when entering the monster cave was fixed for you as well?
[08:48] <grogbot> <Henke37> yeah.
[08:49] <grogbot> <Henke37> i just hope that it doesn't remove access to anything else. because i find it strange for the condition to be there otherwise. either way, it's my fault.
[08:51] <grogbot> <antoniou79> From a playthrough, the full game the cave exit leads directly to a short tram section there, which is linked to a puzzle which is not available in the demo. It's probably ok to assume that showing the demo quit/continue screen is correct there.
[08:51] <grogbot> <Henke37> yeah, it is consistent with my not-that-old memories of trying the original interpreter.
[08:52] <grogbot> <antoniou79> There's a small chance the demo would show some trailer at its "proper" end, but I'm only speculating here, based on what other demos used to do. Anyway that screen is preferable than crashing.
[08:52] <grogbot> <Henke37> nah, i don't recall any ending video.
[08:52] <eriktorbjorn> Henke37: As I said, I tried it with the original "big demo" .EXE and it wouldn't let me enter the cave. It just showed the thank you screen. I guess they didn't bother making the demo a complete mini-game, they just locked off everything but a few rooms.
[08:53] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Ah yeah, then it did what eriktorbjorn reports, and the fix is perfect
[08:54] <grogbot> <Henke37> yeah, i have no complaints about the fix.
[08:55] <eriktorbjorn> I guess I could have restricted it to only the big demo, since the smaller ones don't let you get even that far apparently. But that hardly seems necessary.
[08:55] <grogbot> <Henke37> yeah, and it wouldn't be this line of code for that anywya.
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[08:56] <grogbot> <antoniou79> The only question I would have is why the original clause was specifically excluding big demo there.
[08:57] <grogbot> <Henke37> i will have to ask myself that when i buy a timemachine.
[08:57] <grogbot> <antoniou79> It would make sense that someone tested and had to add that clause, but that led to a segfault so that's a bit curious.
[08:57] <grogbot> <antoniou79> anyway...
[08:57] <eriktorbjorn> Cut and paste, perhaps? There is another place where it checks "if (isDemo() && !isBigDemo())".
[09:16] <grogbot> <antoniou79> The file history is a bit weird, but the commits (PRs I think) were done by Henke, so it seems that there was some reason for the specific change: First "NEVERHOOD: Lock out unavailable ride in demo": https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/commit/e5bd3ed180a31d1750eee9e635604a064f87e277#diff-dc2be94bbe5f0c239b623d3fb8434a376075b118e7b8edfe690dfc6a5063db7a Then "NEVERHOOD: Unlock TNT room back door in big demo":
[09:16] <grogbot> https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/commit/fc700de0f5ee6d1d750ca7adc9bd58991a9a9372#diff-dc2be94bbe5f0c239b623d3fb8434a376075b118e7b8edfe690dfc6a5063db7a
[09:16] <grogbot> <antoniou79> @Henke37 ^^^
[09:17] <grogbot> <Henke37> now i recall. it's for reentering the TNT room from the back area.
[09:19] <grogbot> <Henke37> it's easy to miss when testing, since you have no reason to manually reenter the room after the explosion, and you automatically reenter it with the music box cutscene.
[09:19] <grogbot> <antoniou79> ah, right. It does prevent you to do that now
[09:19] <eriktorbjorn> Oops, that's weird...
[09:21] <eriktorbjorn> I have an idea. Let's try...
[09:25] <Scummette> [scummvm] eriktorbjorn pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JuQsx
[09:25] <Scummette> scummvm/master 58f2920 eriktorbjorn: NEVERHOOD: Only lock out monster cave from demo, not the other exit
[09:25] <eriktorbjorn> That should work better, I hope.
[09:28] <grogbot> <antoniou79> yes seems to work now ok
[09:28] <grogbot> <eientei> @eriktorbjorn yeah, the "lite" demo has placeholder music for one part
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[09:31] <Scummette> [scummvm] eriktorbjorn pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JuQZr
[09:31] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 8124744 eriktorbjorn: NEVERHOOD: Only lock out monster cave from demo, not the other exit
[09:31] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to branch-2-3: https://git.io/JuQZP
[09:31] <Scummette> scummvm/branch-2-3 52e8879 : I18N: Update translation files
[09:32] <eriktorbjorn> I posted a possible fix as a comment on https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/12930 but I don't know enough about Neverhood to say if it's correct or not.
[09:37] <Scummette> [scummvm] alxpnv pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/JuQcW
[09:37] <Scummette> scummvm/master c39383f alxpnv: ASYLUM: rework OGV playback
[09:37] <Scummette> scummvm/master 5708f63 alxpnv: ASYLUM: patch Chapter 2 Lockout bug
[10:10] <grogbot> <Henke37> i'm eager to try out the new game list views. are they merged yet?
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[10:19] <eriktorbjorn> Henke37: I don't think it is.
[10:29] <grogbot> <eientei> If anyone wants to look at a shared game engine, the Magic School Bus series is one. I've got a demo of the Solar System game
[10:29] <grogbot> <Henke37> i think i have a demo or two too
[10:30] <grogbot> <Henke37> it's... somewhere in my archive of magazine shareware cds.
[10:30] <grogbot> <Henke37> at least i recall which magazine it was.
[10:30] <grogbot> <eientei> Do you have a link to your archive?
[10:31] <grogbot> <eientei> or is it physical
[10:31] <grogbot> <Henke37> i've uploaded everything to the internet archive.
[10:31] <grogbot> <Henke37> but i still have the disks
[10:35] <grogbot> <Henke37> but shall i dig out the files for you?
[10:36] <grogbot> <Henke37> here are two of them. i think i have a third on another disk.
[10:36] <grogbot> <Henke37> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/887286901692829696/MSB.rar
[10:40] <grogbot> <Henke37> the other one was a bit big for discord, so here it's on mega instead: https://mega.nz/file/3hRiFbxb#YK2yHb4rpLRPnxIcGy8AxZs5R5PNzhjiR3Z4nXNnwqA
[10:41] <Scummette> [scummvm] neuromancer pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JuQrA
[10:44] <grogbot> <eientei> tfw no nitro
[10:47] <grogbot> <eientei> I have a feeling that the 32mb one is the same one as I have, it came on a Win95+USB disc
[10:48] <grogbot> <eientei> ok, diff is showing it has some differneces
[10:48] <grogbot> <eientei> * differences
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[12:30] <Scummette> scummvm/master c3019f9 neuromancer: PRIVATE: palette composition for PS3
[12:30] <Scummette> [scummvm] bluegr closed pull request #3366: SCUMM: Fix detection of HES collection on Steam (master...detection_fixes) https://git.io/JuH40
[12:30] <Scummette> [scummvm] bluegr pushed 7 new commits to master: https://git.io/Ju7ve
[12:30] <Scummette> scummvm/master 080415a BenCastricum: SCUMM: add all file sizes from the HES games available om Steam
[12:30] <Scummette> scummvm/master 2645975 BenCastricum: SCUMM: Steam has no Mac versions, so change those into generic variants
[12:30] <Scummette> scummvm/master 7101dc8 BenCastricum: SCUMM: Set language of UK versions to GB
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[15:51] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Hmm, Neverhood has a weird random puzzle design (not sure if other engines do that too). The puzzle solution is decided not at the start of a new game but when you encounter the puzzle solution in-game. Which results in save games from the same playthrough not having the same solutions to the same puzzles. 😄
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[16:09] <Scummette> [scummvm] citral23 opened pull request #3367: Add support for opendingux beta build (master...odbeta) https://git.io/Ju5II
[16:15] <grogbot> <eientei> I mean, makes sense if you don't want people loading the save just to clear the game "quicker"
[17:06] <grogbot> <antoniou79> yes, it has some logic to it, but the game is open world-ish, so then you can have save games where you cannot tell if you found a solution yet or not, and notes on puzzle solution that no longer apply.
[17:09] <grogbot> <Henke37> doesn't the original maniac mansion do this with the safe code?
[17:18] <eriktorbjorn> If you want to go back even further, Spellbreaker (Infocom text adventure from 1985) had a puzzle that was randomized when you entered the room. It also disabled saving in that room, and checked that you had at least made an attempt to solve the puzzle the correct way and weren't just guessing.
[17:22] <grogbot> <Henke37> i presume that it also made it impossible to leave the room
[17:25] <grogbot> <antoniou79> It certainly look like old-school aka period of experimenting mentality. It makes sense, and if you are not saving and restoring you won't notice, but if you can die, and you cannot track progress in an readily obvious manner, then it can be confusing.
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[17:26] <grogbot> <Henke37> polite games tell you to save before such sections.
[17:27] <grogbot> <antoniou79> more fun, if the puzzle is not color-blind friendly (as this particular one is in Neverhood -- the second drink mixing puzzle). You may think that you are guessing the colors wrong.
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[17:32] <eriktorbjorn> Henke37: I think this was before politeness was a thing in games. This was back in the "save early, save often" days. Though I don't remember Infocom games as being *that* unforgiving in general. Not like the early Sierra games, where a non-descript line on the ground could turn out to be the edge of a cliff and your biggest enemy was the staircases.
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[18:04] <grogbot> <DreamMaster> You obviously never played Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy then 🙂
[18:12] <grogbot> <eientei> I always thought that it was just me that I'd keep falling into the moat in KQ1
[18:30] <grogbot> <Ducky> Hey, I'm trying to play Little Big Adventure through scummvm, but the game seems to run at half the actual speed
[18:30] <grogbot> <rootfather> Hey Ducky! Which OS are you running and which build of ScummVM have you tried?
[18:31] <grogbot> <Ducky> I'm on the latest buildbot version, I just got it. My OS is Win10
[18:32] <grogbot> <rootfather> Could you please try with the build labelled as "ScummVM Snapshot for Windows" from https://www.scummvm.org/downloads/#daily ? These builds are built with more compiler optimizations, which helps increasing the speed on "heavier" engines.
[18:32] <grogbot> <Ducky> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/887406764012757023/unknown.png
[18:34] <grogbot> <Ducky> I'll try that one out
[18:39] <grogbot> <Ducky> Same thing, it doesnt seem like an FPS issue, just that it runs at half speed for some reason
[18:56] <eriktorbjorn> DreamMaster: I have. Other than needing to pick up all the tools, I don't remember it as being that unforgiving. There were things you could miss, but it was usually obvious that you had missed something. One particular puzzle involving a dog could have been pretty nasty, but you get a second chance to solve that later in the game.
[18:57] <eriktorbjorn> DreamMaster: And it's a pretty small game, so even replaying a substantial chunk of it is pretty quick. Unlike, say, the Space Quest 1 slot machine, which must have taken me more than half an hour of saving and restoring.
[18:58] <eriktorbjorn> The most needlessly unforgiving Infocom game - by far - is Journey, if you ask me. If you play it badly, you can run out of a critical resource and not find out until much later. If you play well, you may not find out that you screwed up until the very end.
[19:00] <grogbot> <DreamMaster> Never played that back in the day
[19:01] <grogbot> <DreamMaster> You're right that HHGTTG wasn't too long. Just a pain that the very last puzzle in the game, will explicitly always ask for a tool that you don't have if you don't have them all handy.
[19:04] <eriktorbjorn> DreamMaster: I like Journey, but I can easily see why some people wouldn't. In the "Eaten by a Grue" podcast episode about the game, neither host managed to win game and at least one of them was using a walkthrough.
[19:10] <grogbot> <DreamMaster> Sounds like something I wouldn't enjoy too much either
[19:35] <grogbot> <Henke37> i seem to recall that hhgttg had a puzzle that gave you N-1 attempts to solve N problems. you either had to be clairvoyant or save scumming.
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[21:05] <grogbot> <DreamMaster> Hmmm.. you may be talking about the babel fish puzzle, perhaps? That certainly involved several steps and was timed, so no-one without a walkthrough would have been able to solve it properly the first time
[21:12] <grogbot> <trembyle> Or the solid gold edition with it's built in hint screens.
[21:13] <grogbot> <trembyle> It may have also helped to have experienced hhgttg in other media first. I don't remember the puzzle that well.
[21:15] <grogbot> <Henke37> from my understanding, you buy a babel fish from a vending machine. but it flies away in an increasingly convoluted sequence each time.
[21:24] <grogbot> <DreamMaster> Overall, it was a fun game. I liked all the little touches. Like how it had mentioned footnotes you could read by entering "footnote <n>", and if you keep reading through all the footnotes one by one, one of them was "Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?". The snarkyness was hilarious to my younger mind.
[21:24] <grogbot> <DreamMaster> Or the whole engine room "puzzle", with the game trying to convince you that it really wasn't all that interesting 🙂
[21:26] <grogbot> <Jaderlund> The babel fish puzzle isn't that bad. You get a new fish every time you press the dispenser button. No need to reload. https://youtu.be/Hf_2faXuxEo
[21:26] <grogbot> <Henke37> it was one of those rare times when the author actually wrote for the game adaptation.
[21:27] <grogbot> <Henke37> indeed, no need to reload, at first. but there are N-1 fish in the machine and you need to do N actions to retain the dispensed one.
[21:34] <grogbot> <Jaderlund> Well, in the video I linked, a new fish is dispensed for every stage of the puzzle. So it seems reasonably possible to solve it on the first try.
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[22:55] <Scummette> [scummvm] AndywinXp opened pull request #3368: SCUMM: DiMUSE: New Digital iMUSE Engine for DIG and COMI - DO NOT MERGE (master...DiMUSEv2) https://git.io/Judqh
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