ScummVM IRC Log - 13 Mar 2020

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[03:47] <grogbot> <antoniou79> For now, we'll just have to wait until we have more information than a press release. But, I mean our code is readily available, quite tested, and the GOG release based on ours is extremely positively reviewed. (also there're some other stuff that we won't disclose now, but perhaps at a future point)
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[08:04] <grogbot> <markamiga500> <bgK> any chance that you finally optimize your residualVM (PS3) for Grim Fandango ? Im begging for this on my knees , im ready to funds it with my little capacity too...
[08:04] <grogbot> <markamiga500> 🤓
[08:06] <grogbot> <markamiga500> I know inside my belly that the PS3 can offer openGL when manipulated by a digital shaman like you...
[08:09] <grogbot> <markamiga500> Classic Beyond Classics , it deserve to be enjoyed by the majority of games (including the PS3 console owners)
[08:09] <grogbot> <markamiga500> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/687935632085221429/9k.png
[08:14] Nick change: ldevulder_ -> ldevulder
[08:14] <grogbot> <markamiga500> Nightdive , they should focusing on making a remake of N64 GOLDENEYE 🤩
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[11:01] <grogbot> <IlDucci> No please
[11:01] <grogbot> <IlDucci> Not GoldenEye, the current fan remake looks good enough
[11:01] <grogbot> <IlDucci> And ActiBlizzard would royally screw it up
[11:03] <grogbot> <antoniou79> "Additionally, the original foreign language subtitles have been recovered from the code as well" https://screenrant.com/blade-runner-game-pc-ps4-xbox-one-nintendo-switch/
[11:03] <grogbot> <antoniou79> I'm gonna have a stroke aren't I?
[11:04] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Anyway, I've added a comment on that. Jesus Christ, where do they get their info from
[11:28] <Scummette> [scummvm] yuv422 pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jv655
[11:28] <Scummette> scummvm/master 28a82bb yuv422: DRAGONS: More work on main menu logic
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[11:40] <grogbot> <Scorp> @antoniou79 😆 😆 😆
[11:41] <grogbot> <Scorp> You did NOTHING, all was auto-recovered from the code!
[11:42] <grogbot> <antoniou79> I think they mis-took a sentence from the original press release in the Hollywood Reporter article, which probably refers to the remaster also including the localized dubbed versions of the game.
[11:43] <grogbot> <Scorp> "Nightdive Studios spent time reverse-engineering the code from an old copy of the game in order to have access."
[11:43] <grogbot> <Scorp> Any comments?
[11:43] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Of course. I have many, but not at this time 😦
[11:43] <grogbot> <Scorp> you and peterkohaut is an alias for Nightdive Studios
[11:44] <grogbot> <Scorp> in other case idk how this sentence could be considered as true
[11:44] <grogbot> <antoniou79> (I mean not any more 🙂 I try to hold off, but it's quite a terrible thing to read and tolerate)
[11:45] <grogbot> <antoniou79> The team's decision is to wait until we have more tangible information about this remaster. And I agree with it, albeit I'm not doing much good job at it
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[11:48] <grogbot> <Scorp> While you wait, the information intensifies! 🙂 Tomorrow we will read, that ND CEO solely recovered all the data for BR, found source code in trashcan, along with 10 different voice-overs and of course subtitles to them and was sitting on all that all along, just waiting for SCUMMVM to release its non-profit implementation. Simple coincidence.
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[13:00] <grogbot> <sev> Nightdive studio: in short. they cannot use our code
[13:00] <grogbot> <sev> and all these informations they post now are plain bluffing
[13:00] <grogbot> <sev> and I warned their CEO. For us it is going to be an easy case to go to the court
[13:01] <grogbot> <sev> but judging from all these comments, they decided to use our code anyway. Worse for them.
[13:01] <grogbot> <sev> and subtitles... no words
[13:51] <grogbot> <IlDucci> I am pissed about the fact they're stealing the subs
[13:57] <grogbot> <Strangerke> What goes around comes around...
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[14:11] <grogbot> <GeekOB> just read this... talk about ripoffs...
[14:11] <grogbot> <GeekOB> You spent A LOT of time making this happen, both the game itself and the subs
[14:32] <grogbot> <GeekOB> Also, just wanted to take a moment to ask how are you guys doing with the COVID-19 situation. Everyone ok?
[14:34] <grogbot> <antoniou79> I've caught something, but it doesn't seem like it's the COVID-19. Hopefully you folks are all well too
[14:35] <grogbot> <madmoose> We're on lockdown! School is closed for two weeks (technically starting monday but practically yesterday) so the kids are home and we're working from home too.
[14:36] <grogbot> <GeekOB> where are you @madmoose ?
[14:36] <grogbot> <madmoose> @GeekOB Denmark.
[14:36] <grogbot> <GeekOB> Schools are closing for two weeks after the week of march break next week
[14:37] <grogbot> <antoniou79> oh, yeah. This is the situation in Greece too. In Patras it started earlier because the first people positive to the virus in the country were mostly here.
[14:55] <grogbot> <Strangerke> Semi-lockdown in Belgium too, because of linguistic disputes
[14:56] <grogbot> <Strangerke> Stupid country
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[16:21] <grogbot> <nava"🇨🇦<> none beat italy dont worry xD here ppl is so damn stupid, someone still hang out on evening as if they are smarter lol
[16:30] <grogbot> <HarshBawari> Everything fine in India, except some schools are closed just for precaution
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[16:32] <grogbot> <rsn8887> My university I work at is closing for two weeks
[16:32] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Using online teaching for classes instead of in person lectures
[16:33] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Certainly seems post apocalyptic right now kind of reminds me of the weeks after 9/11 a bit
[16:34] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Stock market is more volatile than bitcoin right now :/
[16:34] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I have a runny nose but I learned that is not a symptom 🙂
[16:35] <grogbot> <nava"🇨🇦<> i have spring allergy lol i think i will scary away lot of ppl on the next days to come lol
[16:37] <grogbot> <SirYodaJedi> I have year-round allergies, rip.
[16:50] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Apparently letting kids play in the dirt reduces their allergies later? I was a computer kid always glued to the screen... C64 CPC NES Amiga etc probably didnt help.
[16:50] <grogbot> <HarshBawari> Programmers are social vegan
[16:50] <grogbot> <HarshBawari> They avoid meet
[16:51] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Lol
[16:51] <grogbot> <Henke37> have you looked inside a keyboard lately?
[16:51] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Why is there meat inside?
[16:52] <grogbot> <Henke37> depends on your definition of meat.
[16:52] <grogbot> <Henke37> and how sloppy your eating habbits ar
[16:52] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Dust dirt lol
[16:52] <grogbot> <rsn8887> True
[16:53] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I used to use a duster to clean it. That was years ago
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[16:54] <grogbot> <HarshBawari> Once I opened my keyboard, removed electronics and washed the plastic parts with detergent
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[17:44] <bgK> @markamiga500, please accept I'm not going to do further work on the PS3 besides keeping things working (no matter how much flattery is involved)
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[17:58] <grogbot> <rsn8887> So ScummVM uses -ar and -ranlib instead of -gcc-ar and -gcc-ranlib, why?
[18:07] <Dominus> isn't that the standard?
[18:08] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Lol I have so many compilers -c++ -c++filt -cpp -g++ -gcc -gcc-9.1.0
[18:08] <grogbot> <rsn8887> On my machine, link time optimization doesn't work with -ar but works with -gcc-ar
[18:09] <Dominus> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48777554/what-is-the-difference-between-ar-nm-and-gcc-ar-gcc-nm
[18:13] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Hmm I wonder if enabling lto will solve the size problem on Vita exe
[18:13] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Since it can optimize -Os across all compilation units. I will run a quick test.
[18:14] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I think lto finally solves that age old problem that c++ treats code in different files differently as if it were all in one file (which makes no sense to me).
[18:14] <grogbot> <rsn8887> ^ for optimization purposes
[18:15] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Problem with lto is, linking takes forever
[18:23] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I wonder how much duplicated code is present in each engine? I guess not much since each engine .a file (or .so) only includes the engine-specific functions?
[18:24] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Just building scummvm using -disable-all-engines gave a 10% exe size reduction with -flto enabled.
[18:24] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I hope this remains at 10% when building the whole exe
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[18:25] <bgK> c++ tends to generate quite a bit of duplicate code due to template instantiation
[18:27] <grogbot> <rsn8887> ScummVM is truly a massive codebase. I wonder what other projects are this large.
[18:27] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I mean the exe is 50 MB(!)
[18:30] <grogbot> <rsn8887> It seems like the lto specific binary interface is more restrictive than the non-lto one. I can link some .a files fine without -flto but when I enable -flto it complains that the .a was compiled with an older version (7 vs. 8)
[18:30] <grogbot> <rsn8887> That might be a reason why it is not used by default usually, if it creates more incompatibilities and linker errors.
[18:39] <grogbot> <rsn8887> 11 minutes since started to link.
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[18:45] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Does the buildbot build all platforms in parallel, or one at a time?
[18:46] <grogbot> <rsn8887> If it builds sequentially, the long link time might cause issues...
[18:52] <grogbot> <rsn8887> 24 minutes still linking lol
[18:52] <grogbot> <Henke37> LTO is not so much "do a few optimizations at link time", but rather "do the initial parse in the compiler, actually finish the job in the linker"
[18:56] <grogbot> <rsn8887> THat explains the endless wait time.
[18:56] <bgK> yes, and by default GCC only uses one core with -flto
[18:57] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I found a good article on minimizing exe size: https://interrupt.memfault.com/blog/code-size-optimization-gcc-flags
[18:57] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I will try the "linker garbage collection" too
[18:57] <grogbot> <Henke37> visual studio uses a more descriptive name: full program optimization. and link time code generation.
[18:57] <bgK> you can pass -flto=n where n is the number of parallel jobs you want to run
[18:57] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Maybe together with lto it will push the Vita exe size down enough.
[18:57] <grogbot> <Henke37> LTO is good at eliminating dead code.
[18:57] <grogbot> <rsn8887> How can it work in parallel?
[18:58] <grogbot> <Henke37> that's a complicated topic.
[18:58] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Does it give the same result with n!=1?
[19:00] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Ok it finished. Now I will run without lto for comparison
[19:01] <grogbot> <rsn8887> compile
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[19:08] <bgK> with regards to binary size, you might want to check the -mword-relocations and -mlong-calls compiler flags, IIRC they prevent the use of relative addressing instructions that are limited to a +-32MB range. However for it to work properly everything in the executable needs to be compiled with the flags (including the SDK, libc and libraries)
[19:08] <bgK> there might be a performance cost though
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[19:10] <bgK> (I considered using this approach for the 3DS dynamic plugins, but in the end figured how to allocate the plugins close to the main binary so they are in relative addressing range)
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[19:24] <grogbot> <rsn8887> ha. Without -mlong-calls I get crashes in certain games, so that's already used.
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[19:24] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Ok some encouraging results: 111
[19:25] <grogbot> <rsn8887> with lto . : 48181706 scummvm.elf without lto: 55326290 scummvm.elf
[19:25] <grogbot> <rsn8887> SO it might work.
[19:25] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Now I will try the garbage collection plus lto
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[20:05] <Scummette> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JviJ7
[20:05] <Scummette> scummvm/master ab0edf1 dreammaster: ULTIMA8: Fix shadowed local warning
[20:06] <Scummette> [scummvm] dreammaster closed pull request #2135: ULTIMA8: Replace 0s with nullptr where applicable (master...u8_replace_zeros_with_nullptr) https://git.io/JvoNy
[20:06] <Scummette> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JviJ5
[20:06] <Scummette> scummvm/master cc42f8d mduggan: Merge pull request #2135 from mduggan/u8_replace_zeros_with_nullptr
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[20:18] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Here are the final results:with lto and gc: 39531228 scummvm 48120202 scummvm.velf with lto: 39595728 scummvm 48181706 scummvm.velf without lto: 45417160 scummvm 55326290 scummvm.velf
[20:18] <grogbot> <rsn8887> gc doesn't do much extra.
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[21:05] <grogbot> <Henke37> how about when doing a dynamic plugins build? is the total much higher then?
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[22:19] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I don't know Vita version doesn't support plugins
[22:20] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Oh you mean just for testing? No clue.
[22:20] <grogbot> <rsn8887> Crap, I will have to update the Vita toolchain on buildbot to make -flto work.
[22:21] <grogbot> <rsn8887> But shouldn't be a big deal./
[22:22] <grogbot> <Henke37> i didn't check to be honest, but it is usually a rather easy job to add from my understanding. scummvm already comes with a default loader that can be used if the platform doesn't have one built in
[22:22] <grogbot> <rsn8887> I think that uses dload which is not available.
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[22:30] <grogbot> <Henke37> no, it comes with a complete elf loader.
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[22:31] <grogbot> <Henke37> see backends\plugins\elf
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[22:52] <grogbot> <rsn8887> You mean this step by step won't be needed? https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php?title=HOWTO-Dynamic_Modules#Making_the_plugin_linker_script_for_your_backend
[22:56] <grogbot> <Henke37> oh, you do need all that stuff.
[22:57] <grogbot> <Henke37> i'm only saying that you don't need to worry about the platform not having built in support for loading libraries at runtime
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[23:40] <Scummette> [scummvm] yuv422 opened pull request #2139: DRAGONS: replace NULL with nullptr (master...dragons-nullptr) https://git.io/JviLm
[23:54] <grogbot> <rsn8887> 🙂
[00:00] --- Sat Mar 14 2020