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[00:08] <Trembyle> Hi!
[00:08] <Trembyle> It's my first time, on this channel, is this a good place to come or some help setting up games?
[00:09] <Trembyle> I'm trying to get KQ6 Mac version running. I have it working on both Basilisk and SheepShaver, but the data files aren't working for me in scummvm, even after following the steps in the wiki
[00:12] <Trembyle> Is there a way to see what data files are expected for various platforms?
[00:17] <SupSuper> depends if there's any devs around
[00:17] <SupSuper> define "the data files aren't working for me". is the game detected? does it start?
[00:17] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> hello
[00:17] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i can help with kq6 mac setup
[00:18] <Trembyle> The game is not detected
[00:18] <Trembyle> Is the GUI the only way to do that?
[00:18] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> the GUI is, but the mac ones are tricky to setup in a way that can be detected
[00:18] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> what operating system are you on?
[00:19] <Trembyle> WARNING: Failed to open resource map file!
[00:19] <Trembyle> I'm on Win10
[00:19] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> great. are you familiar with "forks" (data forks, resource forks) from the old macintosh days?
[00:20] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> (also, i'm thrilled someone actually wants to run a mac version!)
[00:20] <Trembyle> No, I was always an IBM person
[00:20] <Trembyle> Yes, in Basilisk and SheepShaver, the sound is terrible. I'm assuming it will sound better in scummvm.
[00:20] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> me too! so i'll explain the situation, and then the solution will make sense
[00:21] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> YES, it will be much better
[00:21] <Trembyle> I did follow the steps here
[00:21] <Trembyle> https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php?title=HOWTO-Mac_Games
[00:21] <Trembyle> Which told me to select data fork from HFVExplorer
[00:21] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> yes, so kq6 is a little more complicated than that, but it's the same idea
[00:21] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> so quick background
[00:22] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> in the mac days each file had one or two "forks" which meant each file was really one or two separate files
[00:22] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> and since there was nothing like that in DOS land, or even modern windows outside of alternate data streams which nobody uses,
[00:22] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> that was the huge obstacle to making files work across boundaries
[00:23] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> SOME of the kq6 files have the meat in the resource fork, some in the data fork
[00:23] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> and i don't think we really have documentation on which is which, i feel like i brute forced it a year ago when i was learning it
[00:24] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> but i have it working so i'll bring up my directory and if you make yours look the same you'll be good
[00:24] <Trembyle> Awesome! Thank you!!
[00:24] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> time to document it then 😛
[00:26] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> also, are you using our latest development version, as opposed to the 2.0 release from quite a while ago? because the 2.0 release has a bug and can't even load the mac games, which kind of tells you how much attention these ones get 😃
[00:26] <Trembyle> Your messages are coming from Grogbot. Is that a bridge from Discord or something?
[00:27] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> exactly
[00:27] <Trembyle> Should I join the Discord instead? Might be easier for embeds.
[00:27] <Trembyle> But idk, haven't used IRC since the mIRC days
[00:28] <SupSuper> use whichever's convenient for you
[00:28] <SupSuper> IRC's still the same :p
[00:28] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> please do because i'm going to paste you a screenshot 😃
[00:29] <Trembyle> sure, so where is the discord?
[00:29] <Trembyle> yes, I do find Discord easier for things like screenshots
[00:29] <SupSuper> https://discord.gg/5D8yTtF
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[00:30] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> you're in! here's what i have in my directory:
[00:30] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> kq6 mac
[00:30] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/609181771178967050/unknown.png
[00:30] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i'm sure the read me and .txt file aren't needed, but the rest are
[00:31] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> So, do resource fork and data fork for all of the other files
[00:31] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> yeah the game itself is in Data1 and 2 and "King's Quest VI"
[00:31] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> By the way, separate question, but how do I get the intro quicktime into windows?
[00:32] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> "King's Quest VI" is the SCI interpreter?
[00:32] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> it IS the sci interpreter, which normally we don't use at all in SCI, but there's something about the mac versions where we need to pull stuff from it
[00:32] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> so if this was a dos version you wouldn't need any EXEs
[00:33] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> the intro movie is KQ6Movie, right? last i checked we play that (i don't know if that's quicktime or what)
[00:33] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Oh, and you asked this above. I'm using the 2.0 official release.
[00:34] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> OH then yes, apologies, but that won't work, plus we've improved mac stuff since then, so you want... (fetching link)
[00:34] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> I believe it is QuickTime. I needed to install that in the OS emulators to run the movie. And just the dithering looks familiar from old QuickTime stuff.
[00:34] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> you won't need to do that here, it will either be handled by us or it won't, and last i checked i think it worked
[00:35] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> yeah scummvm has quicktime built-in, you don't need to dig up the old win3.x installer
[00:35] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> https://buildbot.scummvm.org/snapshots/master/mingw-w32-master-latest.zip
[00:35] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Right, I'm just curious so that I can use it for other things. I was surprised that it was slightly different from the PC version.
[00:36] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> if you installed you can just overwrite the application directory with what's in that zip, or just run it somewhere else
[00:37] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Oh, I'm getting good at that old Win 3.X QuickTime installer. I was halfway tempted to bring up Win3.1 in PCEm and ask the Apple Store to help me fix my QuickTime issues.
[00:37] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Ok, I'll make a new copy so that it's not sitting in Program Files (x86) like before.
[00:37] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> Sure, either will work
[00:38] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i'm emotionally invested in your success here because i put some work into fixing mac stuff but it's a pretty small population that even tries to run those versions
[00:38] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i like the menu bar at the bottom!
[00:39] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> if you wanna play the quicktime natively in windows, you can probably still install an old quicktime version (as long as it's 32-bit) or use something like ffmpeg to convert it
[00:39] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> please don't encourage people in self harm
[00:39] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> FFMpeg is not recognizing the file when I try to copy it using HFVExplorer
[00:40] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> I have no problem playing QuickTime files - it's just this one
[00:40] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> it might be bundled up or encoded in something non-windowsy
[00:40] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> @sluicebox too late, it's windows 😛
[00:41] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> earlier you asked if this will run better than on your mac vm, good news, they set the bar so low that it will run much better. you'll be able to do real full screen! room music won't abruptly stop after the first loop
[00:42] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> I'm curious if it has the same keyboard shortcuts and Mac menu bar at the top
[00:42] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/609184770957508618/KQ6mac_shortcuts.png
[00:42] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i'm afraid you won't get that, i forgot that even existed
[00:42] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Oh I was wondering about the looping. I thought that might just be a bug.
[00:42] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> oh my gosh
[00:43] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Like the time bomb bug where you have to patch it after 1993.
[00:43] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> so i don't know if the other SCI folk know this yet
[00:43] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> but yeah the mac interpreter simply doesn't loop sounds when asked
[00:43] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> By the way, the KQ6 speed runners were very excited about those keyboard shortcuts.
[00:43] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> lol kq6 speed runners
[00:43] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i hope they find what they're looking for
[00:43] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Until they found out that you couldn't use "zips" ... which I'm not syre are real things in the game
[00:43] <Grogbot> <Henke37> yet there is the MacMenu class
[00:44] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> i think scummvm can do mac menu bars now but doubt it's worth the trouble
[00:44] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> that lack of looping is why the relatively recently discovered freddy pharkas mac-only easter egg would lock up scummvm
[00:45] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> they typo'd the game script and requested that a sound that should only play once loop forever instead
[00:45] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> since the mac interpreter ignores that and never loops, it didn't cause a problem in the orignial
[00:45] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> but ours dutifully loops, and broke
[00:47] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> I'm having trouble copying the resource fork
[00:47] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> which file
[00:47] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Sorry guys, I need to step away. I'll be back on later.
[00:47] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> All of them
[00:47] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> good luck!
[00:48] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> @sluicebox now you got a new pet project, adding mac menus to all the games 😛
[00:48] <Grogbot> <Henke37> also, make the menus behave like windows menus on windows
[00:48] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> gross
[00:48] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> era-appropriate windows
[00:49] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> there are some adventure games out there that use native windows gui so that'll probably happen at some point
[00:50] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> in the mantime, more sq4 mall bugs
[00:50] <Grogbot> <Henke37> such as peril and hocus
[00:56] <Grogbot> <Henke37> on that note, those games could use better menu item actions.
[00:56] <Grogbot> <Henke37> how do i open the save/load screens?
[00:59] <Scummette> [scummvm] sluicebox opened pull request #1793: SCI: Fix SQ4 Sock's dressing room obstacles (master...sq4dressingroomobstacles) https://git.io/fj7q1
[01:10] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> @Trembyle i found my notes, i ended up not using hvfexplorer, and instead mapped a host directory in sheepsaver and copied the installed files over that way. sheepsaver creates a .rsrc directory in the mapped directory and puts the resource forks there. then you "just" have to manually rename everything the way scummvm wants as in my screenshot. as you've probably seen, taking files straight from floppy or floppy images is no good since
[01:10] <Grogbot> you need the mac installer to reassemble the data files first
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[01:40] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Is that easy to map a host directory? Would I find networking instructions by googling?
[01:42] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> sheepsaver, at least the copy i had, would only map to drive letters instead of directories, so i did the windows trick of creating a network share and mapping that to a drive letter. it's likely "how do i map a drive letter to a directory" gets a solution with less steps, but i'm burdened with windows knowledge, so i did what i know
[01:43] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> recovering / exporting / salvaging anything from that mac era is pure pain. but once it's done it's done!
[02:02] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Ok, this makes sense. I'll try this later.
[02:02] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Maybe that will work to salvage the QuickTime file as well.
[02:06] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> everybody into the lifeboat! good luck, i believe in you
[02:08] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i mean, you already got it working in a mac emulator, which is arguably even harder with all the landmines
[02:13] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> I got in working in two different Mac emulators!
[02:14] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> then my confidence is soaring
[02:14] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> But I enjoy that kind of stuff. And I was always curious about Macs in the 90s.
[02:14] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> did you have to use a second one to get around the 1993 timebomb?
[02:14] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> as i recall that's what made me crack and bite the qemu bullet
[02:14] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> No, I just thought it might perform better. But it didn't help much.
[02:15] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> The time bomb I just set my Windows clock back.
[02:15] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> There is a patch on Macintosh Garden, but it just moves the time bomb to 2007!
[02:15] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> hahahaha
[02:16] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Setting your Windows clock back sucks because it breaks TLS. So you basically can't use the web.
[02:16] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> yeah in this dumb future i can't revert to 1990 on the clock without destroying all https connections
[02:16] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> JINX
[02:16] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Ha
[02:17] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i haven't fun them in a while but i have sheepsaver, which works pretty well but is more likely to crash and has the timebomb, and qemu which is stable and i can set the clock but doesn't have directory mapping for rescuing files
[02:18] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> lol but i am able to get files ON to qemu by running a webserver that serves up basic enough directory listing pages that mac internet explorer 5.5 can render and download from
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[02:42] Action: Trembyle 's head explodes
[02:43] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> That's insane
[02:43] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Sounds fun though!
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[03:21] <Scummette> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj7mw
[03:21] <Scummette> scummvm/master b2f6280 dreammaster: GLK: Add methods for sending windows to the front/back of draw order
[03:21] <Scummette> scummvm/master 832418b dreammaster: GLK: FROTZ: Ordering of text and graphics windows based on usage
[03:21] <Scummette> scummvm/master c68d17e dreammaster: TSAGE: R2R: Add Spanish translation detection entry flagged as pirated
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[05:15] <Scummette> [scummvm] bluegr pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj7Yu
[05:15] <Scummette> scummvm/master 92d3751 sluicebox: SCI: Fix SQ4 Sock's dressing room obstacles
[05:15] <Scummette> [scummvm] bluegr closed pull request #1793: SCI: Fix SQ4 Sock's dressing room obstacles (master...sq4dressingroomobstacles) https://git.io/fj7q1
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[14:43] <Grogbot> <Jaderlund> If anyone is still struggling to extract Mac resource forks on Windows, I've had some success with the snapshot version of HFSExplorer here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/catacombae/files/HFSExplorer/0.23.1%20%28snapshot%202016-09-02%29/
[14:49] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Thanks everyone for your help on this! I ran out of time last night, but I will try this again after work.
[14:49] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Is every AGI/SCI Mac game supported?
[14:52] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Assuming there was a Mac version released for that game
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[16:30] <Grogbot> <JeffCharizardFlame> A while ago I realized that the PC version of Neverhood apparently did get a Japanese release. Files look basically the same as the english version at first glance, but I noticed some files were missing when getting the files off the CD image, but to be honest that might just be a quirk of the Japanese release instead.
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[18:09] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> More specifically, are GK1 and Phantasmagoria 1 supported?
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[18:15] <Grogbot> <rootfather> at least on the current development versions/snapshots, both games are listed with "good" compatibility:
[18:15] <Grogbot> <rootfather> https://www.scummvm.org/compatibility/DEV/gk1/
[18:15] <Grogbot> <rootfather> https://www.scummvm.org/compatibility/DEV/phantasmagoria/
[18:15] <Grogbot> <rootfather> oh, sorry, DOS and Windows only
[18:17] <Grogbot> <ccawley2011> The detection table contains entries for the Mac versions of both games, so it might be worth a try anyway. No guarantees, though.
[18:17] <Grogbot> <ccawley2011> https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/blob/master/engines/sci/detection_tables.h
[18:17] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> But does that mean Mac is definitely not supported? Or just not tested?
[18:17] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Got it thanks
[18:19] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Ooo detection tables ... Sorry I'm mostly a ScummVM newbie.
[18:20] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> This is helpful to see the data files I need.
[18:20] <Grogbot> <rootfather> yep - but sometimes not all required files are listed in the detection table, so you should't rely only on them
[18:22] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> It looks like Phantasmagoria would require me to manually swap files after disc 1.
[18:22] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> Because the Data file names are not unique for each disc.
[18:23] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> As I recall, there is a small amount of mid-chapter disc swapping towards the end, which might not give you the opportunity to save before the swap.
[18:23] <Grogbot> <Trembyle> So I'm guessing this is not completable
[18:32] <Scummette> [scummvm] antoniou79 pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj7Bj
[18:32] <Scummette> scummvm/master 5b839c5 antoniou79: BLADERUNNER: Restore more comments in RC02
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[18:51] <Scummette> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj7RY
[18:51] <Scummette> scummvm/master 92cfff5 dreammaster: XEEN: Fix using 1,2,3 in combat to target specific creatures
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[19:32] <Scummette> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj7Rr
[19:32] <Scummette> scummvm/master 4667aae dreammaster: XEEN: Fix item dialog item icons for shields
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[19:46] <Scummette> [scummvm] ccawley2011 opened pull request #1794: GRAPHICS: Add a version of CursorManager::replaceCursor that accepts a Graphics::Cursor (master...replaceCursor) https://git.io/fj7RX
[20:07] <Tkachov> now I have curl error 60 (=
[20:07] <Grogbot> <rootfather> Sounds familiar 😛
[20:08] <Tkachov> building for Android
[20:08] <Grogbot> <rootfather> Sounds unfamiliar.
[20:08] <Grogbot> <rootfather> while debugging the issues I had with curl on windows, I tracked it down to a missing certificate store
[20:08] <Tkachov> yeah, it seems to be the same
[20:09] <Tkachov> probably buildbot has prebuilt libcurl without certs or something
[20:09] <Grogbot> <rootfather> The solution for Windows was to compile libcurl with support for WinSSL/Schannel so it can use the OS' certificate store - does something similar exists for Android?
[20:09] <Grogbot> <rootfather> When you compile it on Linux at least, you have to provide your own .pem file
[20:09] <Tkachov> that's what I'm going to find out in the next couple of days (=
[20:09] <Grogbot> <rootfather> https://curl.haxx.se/docs/sslcerts.html
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[20:58] <Scummette> [scummvm] bluegr closed pull request #1794: GRAPHICS: Add a version of CursorManager::replaceCursor that accepts a Graphics::Cursor (master...replaceCursor) https://git.io/fj7RX
[20:58] <Scummette> [scummvm] bluegr pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj70M
[20:58] <Scummette> scummvm/master fe5dddf ccawley2011: GRAPHICS: Add a version of CursorManager::replaceCursor that accepts a Graphics::Cursor
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[21:18] <Scummette> [scummvm] lotharsm pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj70A
[21:18] <Scummette> scummvm/master 87d29e0 lotharsm: GUI: Enable missing translation in Cloud options dialog
[21:19] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj70p
[21:19] <Scummette> scummvm/master b29116e criezy: I18N: Update translations templates
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[21:24] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj7EJ
[21:24] <Scummette> scummvm/master 8e6a547 lotharsm: I18N: Update translation (German)
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[21:31] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj7EY
[21:31] <Scummette> scummvm/master d76e03b lotharsm: I18N: Update translation (German)
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[21:47] <Scummette> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj7Ea
[21:47] <Scummette> scummvm/master e9557db dreammaster: XEEN: Show Spell Failed dialog if enchanitem item fails
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[22:11] <travis-ci> scummvm/scummvm#9618 (master - 87d29e0 : Lothar Serra Mari): The build has errored.
[22:11] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/compare/fe5dddf901eb...87d29e034fd0
[22:11] <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/scummvm/scummvm/builds/570019079
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[22:14] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fj7Ex
[22:14] <Scummette> scummvm/master 2396a46 lotharsm: I18N: Update translation (German)
[22:16] <Dark-Star> where does ScummVM on linux put its savegames by default? I have nothing under ~/.scummvm (dir doesn't even exist) and in ~/.config/scummvm there's only the ini file...
[22:18] <ccawley2011_> Dark-Star: They should be in ~/.local/share/scummvm/saves
[22:18] <Dark-Star> ah yes jus found them. thanks
[22:25] <Dark-Star> dreammaster: wow you're quick with those bug reports ;-)
[22:28] <Dark-Star> dreammaster: could it be that the RNG in Xeen still works different than in the DOS version? I keep getting lots of loot with high-tier enchantments. (not that I'm complaining much ;-)
[22:28] <Dark-Star> for example, I'm drowning in "Ego" items, as well as "Scorching", "Noxious", "Cryo", "Kinetic", etc. all of which are either the highest or second-highest tier of enchantment on items
[22:34] <Grogbot> <Henke37> that sounds less like a rng issue and more an issue with how the random numbers are used
[22:36] <dreammaster> Dark-Star: No problem :)
[22:36] <dreammaster> It's certainly possible; I use the ScummVM random number generator rather than trying to exactly replicate the original's, but it still just may be random good luck
[22:38] <Dark-Star> hmm... maybe. but for some attributes, there are like 8 or 9 tiers, and getting the highest 2 almost constantly seems a bit like cheating to me :)
[22:39] <Dark-Star> I was thinking maybe the game originally factors in the level or experience in those random rolls. I mean I'm only around level 10 and a single item might actually double the related stat... and I got like 4 or 5 of them
[22:45] <dreammaster> Well, it's certainly possible I got something wrong in my conversion of the "makeItem" routine that makes random items (and is used to create a random material/status for enchanting items). It's one of the more convoluted of the original, and I've already had bugs I'd previously fixed for it
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[22:51] <Grogbot> <Henke37> wanna bet that it was buggy and you fixing the bugs broke things?
[22:56] <dreammaster> Let's hope not :P
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[23:42] <Dark-Star> dreammaster: btw, I added a savegame to that loot-bug (and to yet another new one)
[23:44] <dreammaster> Thanks. And likewise for finding the bugs
[23:47] <dreammaster> Better such things are fixed now, before we have an official ScummVM release that supports it
[23:48] <Dark-Star> no problem
[00:00] --- Sat Aug 10 2019