ScummVM IRC Log - 06 Dec 2019

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[01:53] <Guest54> so did you abandoned your idea of retaking AGS, DR
[01:53] <Guest54> so did you abandoned your idea of retaking AGS, Dreammaste?r
[01:55] <Guest54> I was starting to cry of emotion... now SCI is integrated that would be the major milestone in ScummVM!!!!!!!
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[02:42] Nick change: DominusExult -> Dominus
[03:37] <Scummette> [scummvm] digitall pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jeyt2
[03:37] <Scummette> scummvm/master e757226 digitall: MADS: Fix Missing Default Switch Cases
[04:34] <Scummette> [scummvm] digitall pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jeyqz
[04:34] <Scummette> scummvm/master d77e70a digitall: KYRA: Fix Missing Default Switch Cases
[04:34] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jeyqg
[04:34] <Scummette> scummvm/master f8c9f12 criezy: I18N: Update translations templates
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[06:21] <Grogbot> <antoniou79> Marginally related, but this is a quote from Ron Gilbert about the possibility of the Thimbleweed Park engine being publicly available: TWP uses a custom engine I wrote. Its not publicly available. It might one day, but there is too much engine code that is game dependent, plus lots of Xbox/PS4/Switch NDA code what would have to be stripped out first. I looked at the work that would be needed, started crying and went to bed.
[06:21] <Grogbot> https://forums.thimbleweedpark.com/t/what-game-engine/3113/3
[06:22] <Grogbot> <antoniou79> I'd be interested to see it open sourced one day. It looks retro but still a positive next step for the Scumm engine
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[06:24] <Dominus> " I looked at the work that would be needed, started crying and went to bed." <- awesome :)
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[06:53] <Endy> Oh yeah, that's like every project I've had to refactor ever :P
[07:48] <Grogbot> <Angelabanana4899> Coool
[07:48] <Grogbot> <Angelabanana4899> when did yall get a discord server?
[07:57] <Grogbot> <Henke37> 2019-05-23T20:56:54.651Z
[07:58] <Grogbot> <Angelabanana4899> o nice
[07:58] <Grogbot> <Henke37> you know, roughly speaking.
[07:58] <Grogbot> <Angelabanana4899> yea
[07:59] <Grogbot> <Angelabanana4899> ddint scumm vm have pajama sam?
[08:05] <Grogbot> <Henke37> it still does
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[08:17] <Grogbot> <Angelabanana4899> where ? ;-;
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[08:30] <Grogbot> <Henke37> it's a supported game. just buy a copy and scummvm will be able to detect and run it
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[09:48] <timofonic> @,99Guest54,99 When did @dreammaster say to not port AGS to ScummVM? He's into too many stuff, he's now with Pentagram (Ultima 8 engine). Maybe he'll back to AGS later. I want more engines, including Glk ones and AGS too (GAC, Comprehend, Arctic Computing one supported by unplad that converts to Quill, PAWS, SWAN, DAAD...) . lt's his spare time, he chooses what to do. I'm quite happy he's so active and contributes to make the ScummVM
[09:48] <timofonic> family grow :)
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[11:37] <timofonic33> Hello
[11:39] <timofonic33> @Guest54 See this, you can see dreammaster is working on it https://github.com/dreammaster/scummvm/tree/ags
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[11:49] <timofonic33> @dreammaster I found an updated gackle (player and extractor for GAC games) https://github.com/tautology0/grackle
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[11:51] <timofonic33> https://github.com/tautology0/sagarework
[11:58] <timofonic33> https://github.com/tautology0/ascape
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[15:53] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/JeyBR
[15:53] <Scummette> scummvm/master 6c816c5 sev-: DIRECTOR: Added more 'if' statement tests
[15:53] <Scummette> scummvm/master a45beac sev-: DIRECTOR: LINGO: Initial code on 'if' preprocessing
[15:53] <Scummette> scummvm/master 458ad2a sev-: DIRECTOR: LINGO: Switch back to LALR(1) parser
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[16:51] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Morning. Not abandoned, just deferred. Basically, I was originally planning to use AGS as a break from Glk for the few weeks of the Christmas holidays, just for some variety. I just happened to start some preliminary work for it in advance of that. My plan was still to keep working on Glk up until Christmas.
[16:53] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> However, when Dominus Dragon reminded me of Pentagram engine, which I'd also planned to eventually looked into, I accidentally got hooked onto looking into it instead on the Thanksgiving long weekend. And I ended up hooked on it and spent the last week pretty much solely focusing on it. At this point, I'm not sure what's going to end up happening for the remaining few weeks until Christmas, and the Christmas holidays themselves. I may
[16:53] <Grogbot> end up still spending time on AGS, or I may end up focusing on getting Pentagram up and running properly and polishing it up for inclusion first.
[16:58] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> timofonic: Are there any publically available GAC games that you're aware of? That would be handy if I try to integrate the engine
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[17:13] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> I'll see how things go, going into next year. I don't want to end up leaving Glk in an unfinished state, so no matter what I work on over Christmas, I'll be returning to Glk afterwards to finish any remaining engines. After that, I'll see
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[17:43] <timofonic> @DreamMaster I found some lists, it seems to be incomplete. I did read somewhere over 100 games were created using GAC, but I'm not sure: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/List_of_games_created_using_The_Graphic_Adventure_Creator http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0006391
[17:48] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> I got briefly excited, since it looked some of the CodeMasters were available for download. Sadly, the ftp server pointed to no longer exists
[17:51] <timofonic> Uhm, there should be other places
[17:51] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> But if there were that many commercially released, maybe one of group's collect-a-holics might have one or more of them. 🙂
[17:52] <timofonic> CPC, ZX Spectrum, C64, BBC Micro, DOS....
[17:52] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> True. That they were publically available means they might still be available somewhere for download, or on archive.org.
[18:30] <Grogbot> <Scorp> @DreamMaster CodeMasters did text adventure games? 😱
[18:33] <Grogbot> <Scorp> No, they did not apart publishing Necris Dome. Uff 🙂
[18:34] <Grogbot> <Scorp> My favorite adventure game writer is definitely Fergus McNeill
[18:35] <timofonic> @Scorp Do you know more GAC games lists? Other platforms, at least...
[18:36] <Grogbot> <Scorp> GAC was only on these 5 iirc
[18:36] <Grogbot> <Scorp> as they are ports between each other, you can use mobygames
[18:37] <Grogbot> <Scorp> and see if that game was released for different platform
[18:37] <timofonic> I only found GAC games lists for CPC and ZX Spectrum
[18:38] <timofonic> Necris Dome is available for download: http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseek.cgi?regexp=^Necris+Dome$&pub=^Code+Masters+Ltd$&loadpics=1
[18:40] <Grogbot> <Scorp> because it was not made by codemasters i believe
[18:41] <Grogbot> <Scorp> this list is highly inaccurate http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0006391
[18:41] <Grogbot> <Scorp> Adventure C was definitely not made with GAC
[18:42] <timofonic> https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/game-engine-graphic-adventure-creator-gac-/
[18:43] <Grogbot> <Scorp> yes, but you can just do a cross-check between the lists and see if the game was released on multiple platforms
[18:43] <Grogbot> <Scorp> do not believe WoS lists though
[18:44] <timofonic> I see
[18:45] <timofonic> unplad can play Arctic Computing games by converting them to quill http://seasip.info/Unix/UnQuill/index.html
[18:48] <timofonic> Charles Cecil from Revolution Software was involved in many Arctic Computing games
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[18:57] <Grogbot> <Scorp> i believe you already told about unplad
[19:02] <Grogbot> <Scorp> https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JA-kHip1V7g/XEI1XdWDptI/AAAAAAAAEeY/s9bgnCnfdVQO4w4R5_fQABpOtZRwtjjVACLcBGAs/s1600/AOA_cover19A_04_Kindle_eBook_Cover.jpg
[19:02] <Grogbot> <Scorp> Time to check what Fergus wrote apart IF
[19:07] <Grogbot> <Scorp> my fav adventure game of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_of_Sherlock
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[19:49] <timofonic> Charles Cecil from Revolution Software was involved in many Arctic Computing games. Would he know about the copyright status of those games?
[19:49] <timofonic> @Scorp Ah, sorry about unplad...
[19:51] <timofonic> @Scorp The Quill strikes back ;)
[20:03] <timofonic> ...and scripted the award-winning Kingdom O'Magic https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Kingdom_O'_Magic
[20:24] <timofonic> @DreamMaster Was this fixed? https://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=14911&p=87524
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[21:32] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Yes, those problems were resolved. Though work still needs to be done for some of the remaining V6 games.
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[21:33] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Part of the problem being the windows are all controlled via scripts, and when they're being shown or not shown. And cases where both graphics and text intermix in the same window. Hence the big headache for Glk
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[21:40] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Honestly, I'm seriously tempted to start from scratch with the new release candidate of Frotz, and have two modes.. use of standard Glk text grid header/buffer text area for non-v6 games, and for v6 games, simply have a single graphics window and route all output from Frotz to it, just like it were an SDL surface. Let v6 show exactly as Frotz does.
[21:42] <Grogbot> <Scorp> Glk is very limited
[21:42] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> I think back on the number of months I spent trying to get just Zork Zero to work, and I shudder.
[21:43] <Grogbot> <Scorp> Idk in what world plotkin lives, but Glk is only good for text without images
[21:43] <Grogbot> <Scorp> not sure why it got so much popularity
[21:45] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Well, to be fair, it's good for what it does. It even handles interleaving small graphics in text like Zork Zero does. It's just, as you say, it somewhat fails to exactly match the original ZMachine version 6 window format.
[21:46] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Having a standard framework to handle display of proportionate text, window and command scrollback, etc. it makes a lot of really old interpreters a lot more pleasant to play than their clunky original displays
[21:48] <Grogbot> <Scorp> That's a theme for a big discussion, I am not ready for that 😉
[21:48] <Grogbot> <Scorp> As there are quite a bit of pros and cons
[21:49] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Sure 🙂
[21:50] <Grogbot> <Scorp> Btw, is that "black theme" for Glk fixed?
[21:50] <Grogbot> <Scorp> Or there is nothing implemented there
[21:51] <Grogbot> <Scorp> I do not remember if we spoke about it after I posted screenshots
[21:52] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Yes.. it kind of slipped my mind. I know that the framework at least has no problems with different backgrounds, as the Frotz one uses a blue background. But maybe there's a problem in the current color options I provide that doesn't set the background correctly.. I never got around to testing it
[21:53] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Sorry
[21:54] <Grogbot> <Scorp> Well, okay, I just wanted to be sure I did not missed any update 🙂 Okay, so maybe if you have time one day, you can remember and try that.
[22:16] <timofonic> @DreamMaster What about expand Glk to make it less limited? :D
[22:21] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> :). I already tried that with the "absolute" window positioning system, and allowing for a transparent text window that would, in theory, allow me to have graphics on a background window, and text on a window in front of it. But in practice, things didn't work out very well. For example, dealing with dirty area handling when the graphics got updated, but not the text. In the end, Glk just doesn't mesh well with v6
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[22:54] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JeywG
[22:54] <Scummette> scummvm/master 2d7f120 sev-: DIRECTOR: LINGO: Finally fix 'if' grammar with prepocessing
[23:22] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/Jeyw6
[23:22] <Scummette> scummvm/master 5e00b3c sev-: DIRECTOR: Implement 'compileonly' debug flag
[23:31] <timofonic> @DreamMaster It may be more disruptive, but... What about a Glk successor without IRA it's limitations?
[23:42] <Lightkey> Let's not get the IRA involved.
[23:57] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> timofonic: It's always a possibility for the future, certainly. Though I don't think there'll be much benefit from something like that. After all, all the existing subengines will be just fine with Glk. It's only Frotz in particular, and only because it has multiple windows that can shift around and overlap each other, and have special display rules that throws a wrench into things.
[23:57] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> For now, better I focus on getting everything converted to using what we already have. 🙂
[00:00] --- Sat Dec 7 2019