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[05:07] <ScummBot> Build [#221](https://buildbot.scummvm.org/#builders/159/builds/221) of `daily-master` completed successfully.
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[06:11] <grogbot> <eriktorbjorn> Heh. All this talk for and against the art style of the upcoming Monkey Island game reminds me of this bit from The Onion: https://www.theonion.com/trekkies-bash-new-star-trek-film-as-fun-watchable-1819594814
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[07:27] <grogbot> <somaen> The one comment I can slightly agree on, is that the melee town shouldnt be scaled up so much, makes melee island look smaller
[07:29] <grogbot> <somaen> But thats a fairly minor gripe, the island is still huge
[07:30] <grogbot> <Bluddy> where are the comments vs the new art style?
[07:34] <grogbot> <somaen> Oh and EFMI made melee town very different anyhow, so&
[07:35] <grogbot> <somaen> Can find some here if you search for art: https://grumpygamer.com/return_to_monkey_island
[07:35] <grogbot> <somaen> But its not a case of the community turning against him, just a few vocal commenters
[07:46] <grogbot> <rootfather> The usual "OMG YOU CHANGED $something"
[07:47] <grogbot> <Bluddy> yeah doesn't seem like a big deal
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[08:02] <grogbot> <SupSuper> well clearly it worked because he posted this and closed comments: https://grumpygamer.com/when_i_made_another_monkeyisland
[08:08] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Well, at this point it's not very productive to have comments requesting a different art style. The game is scheduled for release within the year. And people have only seen static screenshots too. It will definitely look better with added effects and the ambience of music/sounds.
[08:09] <grogbot> <antoniou79> I am not a big fan of the style but considering we're getting a Monkey Island, out of the blue, and as Rob Gilbert envisions it, I'm more than satisfied.
[08:09] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Anyway, the internet is not going to change.
[08:16] <grogbot> <Bluddy> Interesting. I guess he got similar feedback from other people. Personally I think he really sums up the arguments very nicely in this post, which are that Monkey Island was never supposed to be 'retro'. So many people though are stuck in nostalgia.
[08:17] <grogbot> <Bluddy> My personal concern would be whether he's capable of writing good characters and particularly a good ending. After Thimbleweed Park, I'm really doubtful.
[08:23] <Endy> Still, the "one size fits all" model is why some modern titles are so watered down in terms of puzzles or gameplay.
[08:23] <Endy> And I'm not just saying that because for some reason I got all of the Thimbleweed Park SCUMM programming questions correct (a lot of people didn't enjoy that part of the game for some reason heh)
[08:24] <Endy> The best comment I saw was that "Pixel Art" wasn't even a thing back then, the art style was more a result of the technical limitations - which applies to the progression of LEC art styles throughput SCUMM V5-V7
[08:24] <grogbot> <SupSuper> yeah at least he's already made Thimbleweed Park for the retro purists, let's see what else he's got
[08:24] <Endy> Less technical limitations = different art style. Duh. :)
[08:25] <grogbot> <Bluddy> ugh I hated TP so much
[08:25] <grogbot> <Bluddy> the art was lovely though
[08:25] <grogbot> <Bluddy> definitely the best part of the game IMO
[08:26] <Endy> Can't argue with TP having great art :)
[08:43] <grogbot> <antoniou79> The art was so good. In the kickstarter they initially aimed for a Maniac Mansion art style -- but thankfully later on Mark Ferrari got involved and the end result is amazing
[09:00] <grogbot> <dwa> I dont really like TPs style, in that all character faces are emotionless. They all have that dull expression
[09:01] <grogbot> <dwa> Probably as a nod to Maniac Mansion, but&
[09:03] <grogbot> <dwa> Fortunately Dave Grossmans on board and I think Ron works better when someone confronts his ideas (I dont think David Fox is very confrontational). A bit like the Beatles vs. solo careers
[09:05] <grogbot> <dwa> And yeah I think was TB was too much solo Ron. I liked how it updated the pointnclick interface though
[09:11] <grogbot> <Bluddy> IMO the weakest part of the art was the giant heads. They should have changed that up as well when they did the update. But the rest of the art was beautiful. I agree that the interface was neat, and I liked how the ghost had different verbs. The character design was just awful though. While the game started out with style, every character became grating (especially the clown). The puzzles were decent, but the plot was SO bad. Again, just
[09:11] <grogbot> my opinion. I really wish we could get another game with Schafer's plot, writing and character design, and with Gilbert's puzzles and general ideas.
[09:13] <grogbot> <Bluddy> Part of the reason I think the characters were so boring was their Maniac-Mansion style approach of interchangeable characters. Since they couldn't know which character would carry out what action, they couldn't have them do interesting things. The open nature of the game also meant nothing could really happen in the town, because they couldn't know which puzzle would be solved first (in a general sense). The latter is a common problem for
[09:13] <grogbot> adventure games. The former is something they brought on themselves with the interchangeable characters. But the background characters are also boring, and that's entirely on them.
[09:20] <grogbot> <antoniou79> After I'd played TP it got a few content updates, but I haven't really gone back for a full playthrough since. I did like the game, but I also wanted more of it in some sections and locations at least. Also if they put more dialogue for NPCs that would change during the flow of the game that'd be great. Otherwise, quite a few of them had a tree dialogue that once you'd exhausted it, they were non-interactible anymore.
[09:23] <grogbot> <antoniou79> The engine was very well done btw. I think the new game will be using the same engine(?) updated to fit the new requirements probably
[09:24] <grogbot> <Bluddy> yeah the engine seemed great
[09:25] <grogbot> <Bluddy> Ron's very good at the technical aspects: puzzle design and programming. I don't think he's nearly as good at the parts that require creativity.
[09:25] <grogbot> <Bluddy> (a different kind of creativity)
[09:25] <grogbot> <gu3> This discussion is a good excuse to revisit: https://github.com/scemino/engge
[09:25] <grogbot> <dwa> Yeah sometimes it feels like the whole town is under Prozac. I thought it would change at some point in the game but no. I think its also making a bit of fun of Twin Peaks where everyone feels off in the town, but hm I dont know, I expected things to change at some point
[09:25] <grogbot> <Bluddy> he also got the kickstarter done on schedule and managed it perfectly
[09:26] <grogbot> <gu3> It doesn't looks finished yet (however, it seems that the game is completable)
[09:26] <grogbot> <Bluddy> @dwa I actually really liked the Twin Peaks atmosphere. The problem was that none of the characters lived up to it. The dialog was weak.
[09:26] <grogbot> <dwa> Yeah
[09:26] <grogbot> <Bluddy> It was just the regular Gilbert jokes thrown in with boring characters.
[09:27] <grogbot> <Bluddy> And of course that ending...
[09:28] <grogbot> <Bluddy> The 'a-boo' jokes felt so silly. So much of the game relied on an insult clown for humor.
[09:28] <grogbot> <Bluddy> At a technical level, the game is excellent. Analyzed at a creative level (dialog, characters, story), it's a disaster.
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[09:31] <grogbot> <dwa> Yeah I thought it was quite resentful, as a whole. And very self centered. I dont think these feelings make great art, especially when theres so much of it. Fortunately, for Monkey 3a Ron appears to look forward again (while TP was just about looking backwards IMO) so that and Daves presence should put the game in a much better direction
[09:33] <grogbot> <dwa> Yeah, some of Rons best tricks are like spices: its very good and effective but you really should not put too much of it. In TP, the whole spice bottle was thrown into the meal. To the point where they had to disable the "stupid in-jokes" by default in an update
[09:34] <grogbot> <dwa> I think that Dave or Tim would have fixed that much earlier in the creative process
[09:34] <grogbot> <antoniou79> The kickstarter and the game development aspect were perfectly managed though, as compared to say Double Fine's attempt. Double Fine offered a fine documentary, but the development process was terrible and the end result, especially the second part was too mediocre with inexcusable puzzle design mistakes.
[09:35] <grogbot> <antoniou79> I don't think I'd trust Tim to do a far better job. But I overall liked TP better than Broken Age.
[09:35] <grogbot> <antoniou79> And that affects my judgement
[09:36] <grogbot> <dwa> Ah, thats the opposite for me 😁 I think that Broken Age was fresher and it didnt have all that bitterness
[09:36] <grogbot> <antoniou79> The bitterness is not there, that much I agree with 🙂
[09:37] <grogbot> <rootfather> Speaking of bitterness, "The Cave" was surprisingly dark as well when I played it a couple of years ago
[09:39] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Hmm, I left the cave somewhat early. Not that I disliked it, but I don't think I was hooked either. Also I've grown to not big fan of platforming in the last few years
[09:41] <grogbot> <antoniou79> (Although I was entirely hooked with Hollow Knight, until that hellish platforming DLC)
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[09:56] <grogbot> <Bluddy> Tim Schafer is the creative messy type. He's disorganized but brilliant and funny, and the best parts of Broken Age were therefore the creative elements. Ron Gilbert is organized and methodical. His strengths are programming, management and puzzle design. Combining their strengths, they can make amazing adventure games IMO.
[09:57] <grogbot> <rootfather> This is the perfect explaination their games (usually) work so well
[11:01] <Scummette> [scummvm] antoniou79 opened pull request #3858: DOCS: Minor syntax fixes for graphics settings page (master...minorDocFixForGraphicOptions) https://is.gd/mervN2
[12:51] <Scummette> [scummvm] r41k0u opened pull request #3859: DIRECTOR: Fix c_themenuitementityassign assigning the menuItems (master...fix_findMenuItem) https://is.gd/EBYHcy
[13:40] <grogbot> <ju> https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/11711
[13:40] <grogbot> <ju> > BACKENDS: Android (Amazon Fire HD8/2020) - Touchpad mode issue ("mouse mode" not working, stuck in "direct mode")
[13:40] <grogbot> <ju> I'm having the same issue
[13:40] <grogbot> <ju> I've been searching for solutions for a bit but couldn't find anything
[13:41] <grogbot> <ju> Any idea what I could do?
[13:41] <grogbot> <ju> It's kind of hard to play games when your finger is always in front of the cursor 😦
[13:45] <grogbot> <antoniou79> is the choice for the mouse control mode saved?
[13:46] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Also which version of Android are you testing with?
[13:47] <grogbot> <ju> Yes, it is saved
[13:47] <grogbot> <ju> The behavior doesn't change
[13:48] <grogbot> <ju> Doesn't matter if checked or unchecked
[13:53] <grogbot> <ju> It's an Amazon Fire HD8. I'm not sure where to find out the Android version. I can't find it in the settings menu, like I would on a regular Android tablet.
[14:02] <grogbot> <antoniou79> In the related forum thread, the TS wrote it's based on Android 9 https://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?p=89513&hilit=Fire+HD+8#p89513
[14:03] <grogbot> <antoniou79> I don't know what causes it and I haven't looked further into it yet -- I may be able to check on Android stuff after I finish the current thing I'm doing (cleaning up my additions to VQA decoder for Blade Runner)
[14:05] <grogbot> <antoniou79> Oh, and doing some fixes to Toonstruck first.
[14:13] <grogbot> <ju> Alright, thanks. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help and try out.
[14:13] <grogbot> <ju> I guess it must be some kind of "security feature"? 🤔 Not allowing the mouse pointer to be moved somewhere where the event hasn't happened?
[14:25] <grogbot> <ju> The "tap with two fingers" as a replacement for right-mouse-button click doesn't work either
[14:26] <grogbot> <ju> I guess that's a related issue
[14:28] <grogbot> <antoniou79> It could be. I would be nice to be able to replicate it on an emulator or one of my devices (I have one that's on Android 9) -- but I don't get this bug.
[14:28] <Scummette> [scummvm] neuromancer pushed 7 new commits to master: https://is.gd/YkP9BQ
[14:28] <Scummette> scummvm/master 12b6836 neuromancer: HYPNO: renamed demo variant name and correct its language in wet
[14:28] <Scummette> scummvm/master 877e3fb neuromancer: HYPNO: corrected colors of the default cursor
[14:28] <Scummette> scummvm/master 99799a7 neuromancer: HYPNO: corrected colors of the default cursor (again)
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[17:29] <grogbot> <Big Beef> do the face animations in curse of monkey island lag a bit or is it that just some weird scummvm limitation
[17:44] <grogbot> <Bosca> Which platform and version are you on?
[17:46] <grogbot> <Big Beef> windows 10 and latest scummvm
[17:48] <grogbot> <Bosca> latest as in the development version, right?
[18:06] <grogbot> <Big Beef> nah latest stable
[18:08] <grogbot> <Bosca> okay, so 2.5.1
[18:08] <grogbot> <Bosca> yeah, sometimes the lipsync lags a bit behind for some phrases
[18:08] <grogbot> <Bosca> it shouldn't be for all though
[18:09] <grogbot> <Bosca> the parameter of reference for that game is looking at when guybrush walks and hearing if the footsteps are in sync
[18:09] <grogbot> <Bosca> if they are, everything else lag-related is probably done on purpose
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[21:39] <Scummette> [scummvm] neuromancer pushed 2 new commits to master: https://is.gd/ouVbxv
[21:39] <Scummette> scummvm/master b79e107 neuromancer: HYPNO: added new demo variant for wet
[21:39] <Scummette> scummvm/master d836707 neuromancer: HYPNO: added another non-interactive demo for wet
[21:39] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://is.gd/aJxikM
[21:39] <Scummette> scummvm/master 77f4996 : I18N: Update translations templates
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[23:21] <Scummette> [scummvm] rsn8887 opened pull request #3860: PSP: adjust audio settings for new dimuse (master...pspaudiolagfix) https://is.gd/KCLbR1
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[23:47] <Scummette> [scummvm] bluegr closed pull request #3858: DOCS: Minor syntax fixes for graphics settings page (master...minorDocFixForGraphicOptions) https://is.gd/mervN2
[23:47] <Scummette> [scummvm] bluegr pushed 1 new commits to master: https://is.gd/7RJvKP
[23:47] <Scummette> scummvm/master 39f4653 antoniou79: DOCS: Minor syntax fixes for graphics settings page
[23:48] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://is.gd/NHyVZ7
[23:48] <Scummette> scummvm/master c70284c : I18N: Update translation files
[00:00] --- Thu May 5 2022