ScummVM IRC Log - 03 Sep 2019

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[00:23] <Scummette> [scummvm] sluicebox pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fjpQw
[00:23] <Scummette> scummvm/master 062d308 sluicebox: SCI: Disable LONGBOW Amiga speed test
[00:28] <Scummette> [scummvm] sluicebox pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fjpQi
[00:28] <Scummette> scummvm/master 25e32b2 sluicebox: SCI: Fix script patch macro
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[01:26] <ScummBot> Port build status changed with acebff98: Success: master-osx_intel. Nice work, all ports built fine now
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[04:11] <Lightkey> https://www.indiegala.com/leisure-suit-larry-and-friends-bundle
[04:12] <Lightkey> metafox: Oh hay, since when are you on IRC?
[04:15] <Lightkey> metafox: So question, why did you write Hugo in all-caps? I can't find a source for that.
[04:27] <metafox> I've only just tried out the IRC thing again - just starting hanging out here yesterday actually ;)
[04:27] <metafox> The IF Archive said Hugo was an abbreviation, but I see that it's not in caps even there
[04:28] <metafox> I can move it to Glk/Hugo - no problem
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[06:37] <LePhilousophe> hi
[06:37] <Grogbot> <FloWo1701> Hi
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[07:27] <Grogbot> <Strangerke> Hi guys
[07:30] Nick change: ldevulder_ -> ldevulder
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[08:12] <Endy> Hey Strangerke, and every other awesome person here... woot! :)
[08:13] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> woot indeed. woot... indeed.
[08:15] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> that was supposed to come across in a solemn cider house rulles Michael Caine voice, so sorry if it didn't
[08:17] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> Hi everyone!
[08:21] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> @Praetorian i stayed up late last night playing blade runner for the first time. i'd never heard about it back in the day, only thought your scummvm work, though i'm a typical blade runner fan. i just can't even believe how good it was, i have no idea how far i am thought it other than "four hours or so". i'm so deeply impressed with your work, and nothing went wrong as far as I could tell, I'm just in awe of the game and the recreation
[08:21] <Grogbot> and everything.
[08:23] <Tkachov> https://kotaku.com/emulator-can-now-use-machine-learning-to-translate-game-1837593565
[08:24] <Tkachov> ScummVM has libcurl, so probably could do something like that (may be it would even work better as it wouldn't have to translate text from a picture, but send actual strings)
[08:25] <Tkachov> just a thought tho, I'm not sure anyone needs this (and if anyone wants to implement that)
[08:26] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> @sluicebox I'm glad you had fun with it! It really is a great game with very ambitious design.
[08:34] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> This is just... this is an obsession well spent, maybe you'd put a different word to it, but it's so good. I think I'm the right audience too, I don't even play games, when the 90s stopped making the kinds I liked I just stopped. I am so engrossed in this one, but I will only play it late at night, so I have to wait for another free night. I'll also only play it in Los Angeles, but that's just a convenient moral excuse since I live here.
[08:37] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> 😄
[08:37] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> Are you planning on playing the restored cut content version too?
[08:38] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> I now realize that the blade runner franchise is kind of an indictment on real los angeles, because it's horrible but kinda seems more fun than reality?
[08:38] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> it could be. I've never been to LA
[08:40] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i am dedicated to sluicing out blade runner bugs. my commit history speaks for itself, i can't walk through a gol' damn sierra room without shattering everying. my bad luck trumps all my custom tools, static analysis, etc
[08:40] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> that said, i don't fully understand the restored content
[08:40] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i don't want to know yet
[08:40] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> since i am playing as a fresh new player
[08:40] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I understand.
[08:40] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> once i get to the end, then i iwill look into that
[08:41] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i always wonder if people understand my very literal username (maybe they haven't gold panned in north americ?)
[08:42] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> On one hand I'd like people to test it when it's completely done (or I'm happy with it to leave it at a certain completion percentage). But then, I'd like to see what people think of it... It's more intended to people who finished the game and want to see mote of it, that's true though
[08:43] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> the only thing that occasionally takes me out of the Mid 21st Century Blader Runnery Moment is the nagging "HOW DID THEY REVERSE ALL THIS?!"
[08:43] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> hahah
[08:45] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> how stable was this on win95? i imagined the real thing just falling over on a gust of wind, but I never ran this so I don't know
[08:47] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I was quite stable, but it did have many bugs. Most of them were minor, I don't think I ever got a crash to desktop situation. I did get a "game is running but nothing is happening" bug at a specific point before Act 3 (which is now fixed for ScummVM).
[08:47] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i've been meaning to ask you...
[08:48] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i see commits that are fixes for bugs in the original game
[08:48] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> and they are wrapped in preprocessor macro tests
[08:48] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> and that surprises me, is that temporary?
[08:48] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> because i can imagine a checkbox "enable bugfixes" but not "compile a cusom version"
[08:49] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I guess we wanted to mark those just in case the bug we spotted was intended behavior or became an acceptable "feature" which would have side-effects if fixed
[08:49] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> also can we just appreciate the avatar magic of bob conversing with a sandwich?
[08:50] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> hahaha. Magic
[08:50] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i almost chimed in on a github thread with you and be and supsuper as a block of cheese and declaing the thread off limits to anyone who had an off-topic avatar
[08:53] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i would be blade runnin' tonight if i didn't have so many meetings to call into tomorrow, blerg
[08:53] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> Btw, I wanted to ask here; I want to add some extra options specific for Blade Runner. But I see that the only type of extra options supported currently is check boxes. Is this intentional, are we open to adding support for dropdown menus or radio buttons there?
[08:54] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i really just can't overstate how impressed i am, and how much i'm enjoying it. i love that you used the worst abitious, that's exactlty what it is, and it pulls it off
[08:54] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> that's a good question and i haven't ventured outside my box enough to know
[08:54] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> here in sierra land i fix obtective bugs that we always want fixed
[08:55] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> and the few expcetions that have been found are condusive to checkboxes
[08:55] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I see.
[08:55] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> but those arne't even bugs, but "oooh, we found a someone implemented feature"
[08:56] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> or "this feature was windows only, maybe you want it in dos mode, we can do that too"
[08:56] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> yeah, I appreciate improvements like that (and having them being optional)
[09:00] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> I am very excited to eventually become a blade runner expert. I am in play mode now though, deliberately ignorant, so I don't want to know anything, but wow I mucked around like the bug magnet I am for hours without a hint of trouble. Two weeks ago I fired up EcoQuest 2 for the first time since the 90s and I literally couldn't make it through one minute of without tripping a crash bug that's always occurred in scummvm. i am the worst.
[09:00] <Grogbot> blade runner is weathering me well.
[09:02] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> 🙂 Good to read! Although you will find a few eventually. Because I sort of have a list 🙂
[09:02] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> Nothing major though, afaik
[09:04] <Scummette> [scummvm] digitall pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fjpND
[09:04] <Scummette> scummvm/master cf823c0 digitall: GLK: TADS: Fix GCC Compiler Warnings
[09:05] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> oh i know all bout dat internal list of meg bugs
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[09:06] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> at the risk of blowing my mystique...
[09:06] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> i don't spend all, really any, of my time clicking aound sierra games
[09:07] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> instead i've built a ball of code (like a ball of glue or rubber bands or boogers)
[09:07] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> to slice and dice sierra games
[09:08] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> and one of the outputs is some ham fisted (but depressingly effective) static analysis that automatically finds bugs in my corpus of games
[09:09] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> all of which feeds into my personal backlog of trouble i've found through bad luck
[09:10] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> and what, earlier today, one of those low priority findings in an obscure (amiga) version of game turned out to unearth a whole mess of toruble, all of which is now fixed
[09:11] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> wow
[09:11] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> because it was "oh, that would only get tripped if the built-in speed test thought this was a super slow computer"
[09:11] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> Yeah, sometimes an obscure bug seems harmless, but when you go to fix you discover the many implications it had
[09:12] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> which turned out "wow the speed test always thiinks scummvm is a super slow computer"
[09:12] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> so now we've got "okay i need to fix the first problem... also why do we always fail the speed test??"
[09:12] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> which turned into "wow this version has a CRAZY speed test... and it adds a 10 second delay before the game starts??"
[09:13] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> oh man yes, you go looking for trouble, you gon' find frouble
[09:14] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> that's my bug hunting strategy in a nut shell: go looking for trouble
[09:17] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> @Praetorian i think engine options can only be checkboxes because of the way they tie to detection flags. They are bitflags after all
[09:17] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> You could have in-game options? Depends what you're planning
[09:19] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> @Praetorian i genuinely have no idea how old you are because you've put in an unfathomable effort into making a win95 game work but on the other hand you reply to discord messages with emoji-respones. i consider myself a master of disguise but i have much to learn from you. hashtag respect.
[09:20] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> @SupSuper, I guess I could do that. I was planning to add a dropdown for choosing a fps limit (among predefined choices or a "disabled" one) for the new framelimiter. It seemed to be a better fit outside the game
[09:21] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> @sluicebox, yeah. I think I like responding with emojis. It simplifies so many thinks for me.
[09:21] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> it makes so much sense but at the same time it's the only thing i can cling to to conince myself i'm not a replicant
[09:21] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> hahah
[09:23] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> @Praetorian yeah I've had the same dilemma. It's nice to have external options but they seem intent as version flags, not user options
[09:23] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I see
[09:24] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Like ye olde command line switches. For example i have an engine with a flag only available in windows versions
[09:25] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> But you can do anything with ConfMan and Gui on the engine itself. Just doesn't look as nice
[09:26] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I suppose we still could do it if there are limited choices for a dropdown that you can map to bit flags, albeit that would waste bit flags and it wouldn't look pretty code-wise
[09:28] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Might just need more engine devs to weigh in but i haven't seen any games support something similar
[09:30] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Optimally you could add a "type" to the gui option flags without breaking everything 😛 ConfMan certainly supports it but Gui is trickier
[09:30] <Grogbot> <sluicebox> signing off, won't have an opportunity to run dat blade for a few days, so excited to resume later
[09:31] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Speaking of options, the "restored content" mode seems very confusing to newcomers so far. Dunno if it needs a better name or better docs (nobody reads those)
[09:32] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I think @peterkohaut suggested something along the lines of "Final Cut" (and I like the idea), which is in line with the name for the final(?) version we got for the original movie
[09:33] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> was Director's Cut already taken?
[09:34] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> well it gets more confusing here 🙂
[09:36] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> Director's Cut is not the "definitive" version of the film. Although, they did release those (I think twice), before the Final Cut
[09:36] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> But also
[09:36] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> the game itself includes a "Designers Cut" check box, which is very confusing and counter-intuitive. Maybe intended as an internal joke or jab at the "Director's Cut" release of the movie
[09:37] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> The Designer's Cut is actually removing dialogue from the game. But it is very underused too
[09:37] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> fair enough. But if one option just sounds universally "better" players will necessarily opt for it
[09:37] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I'm counting on word of mouth 🙂
[09:38] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I'll try to make it the definitive version, but not everyone will agree. Still there's cool stuff to find so I am hopeful it will be received positively
[09:38] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Director's Cut at least implies "more but not necessarily better content, something you 'll only appreciate after the regular version"
[09:39] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Final Cut sounds good too
[09:39] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> It also has the implication that the Director was involved in the decision, which is not the case here (although I'd love some input from the original creators and writers!)
[09:40] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> Just don't sue me into oblivion please 🙂
[09:41] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> eh games have abused the hell out of Director's Cut. It's like GOTY edition, just marketing 😛
[09:41] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> My engine has a DC version and i think it just made a bad game worse!
[09:42] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> But yours is an actual movie game so :)
[09:42] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> oh? which engine is that?
[09:42] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Jack Orlando
[09:42] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> ah yes
[09:43] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I have yet to play the game. Even though I own it
[09:43] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> the graphics and animations looked cool
[09:44] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> You're not missing much 😛 like a lot of late 00s games, it is pretty, but the gameplay is a mess
[09:46] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> I think most people only have the DC version. But as part of reversing i have both versions, and the changes done are... confusing to say the least
[09:46] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> ouch
[09:47] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Would love to know what goes on behind designer's heads sometime, but maybe better off not knowing
[09:48] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> yeah, maybe
[09:48] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Speaking of @Praetorian you ever reached anyone at Westwood?
[09:49] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I haven't yet. I am mustering the courage I guess.
[09:51] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> Haha i know the feeling. I imagine someone must have told them by now, must be nice seeing their classic run again
[09:59] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> At least it timed nicely with the ars video
[10:03] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> indeed
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[11:22] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> So, apparently I can no longer compile my builds with msys2/mingw64 because I get an error in "backends/text-to-speech/windows/windows-text-to-speech.cpp:" for missing the header file "sapiddk.h"
[11:23] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> Any ideas which package could have this one? Pacman search is not very helpful
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[11:32] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> I guess for now as a workaround I can use the --disable-tts option
[11:34] <Grogbot> <peterkohaut> my fault that "with restored content" name... i wantend the final cut, but its not done by westwood so chose the more confusing but more accurate one
[11:37] <Scummette> [scummvm] antoniou79 pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/fjppn
[11:37] <Scummette> scummvm/master dde41f1 antoniou79: BLADERUNNER: Restored content - Fix bracelet purchase regression
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[12:49] <Grogbot> <criezy> We really need to add the TTS building instructions to the wiki.
[12:49] <Grogbot> <criezy> In the meantime you can find them here: https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/pull/1808
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[13:15] <LePhilousophe[m]> It seems mingw provides a different sphelper.h
[13:46] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> isn't TTS disabled by default?
[13:47] <Grogbot> <Henke37> it is on msvc
[13:48] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> hm i'm gonna try it then
[13:49] <Grogbot> <Henke37> it is disabled by default on msvc
[13:51] <Grogbot> <Henke37> actually, i can't tell which it is. it's not listed when you run create_project
[13:51] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> right so i'm gonna enable it manually 😛 or is it not supposed to work in msvc?
[13:52] <metafox> it works in msvc, it just gives a warning message when compiling
[13:55] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> well it compiles. but the actual TTS just crashes :c
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[14:39] <Grogbot> <Vyzigold> The TTS is disabled on Windows by default, because it gives a warning with MinGW. With msvc it could probably be enabled, if there is a way to test if SAPI is installed in create_project. So you have to explicitly enable it either when you run create_project, or configure. I'm sad it crashes for you @SupSuper, I mostly tested the TTS with MinGW, but I will try it with msvc on the current master this evening. Hopefuly I can figure out what
[14:39] <Grogbot> is wrong. The building instructions in the pull request description should be correct, but I wrote them from memory, so I might have forgot something. This week, I plan to create clean systems (Win and Linux), build the TTS there and write the steps, that are needed to build it. So that can then be posted to the wiki.
[14:42] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> in latest msvc you don't need to do any extra steps at least, sapi is already part of windows sdk
[14:43] <LePhilousophe> really? because in the PR there are many steps
[14:43] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> i assume that's for mingw (or older msvc)
[14:44] <LePhilousophe> mingw should have necessary headers
[14:44] <LePhilousophe> @Vyzigold: I am not sure to understand why you put a patched sphelper.h in scummvm, mingw seems to provide one
[14:45] <Grogbot> <Vyzigold> MinGW-w64 has SAPI headers, but they are a little different, than the official ones
[14:45] <LePhilousophe> don't they work?
[14:45] <Grogbot> <Vyzigold> the other MinGW doesn't have any SAPI headers
[14:45] <LePhilousophe> oh ok
[14:45] <Grogbot> <Vyzigold> they don't have everything I used
[14:45] <LePhilousophe> :(
[14:45] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> old mingw stopped paying attention to win32 long ago 😛
[14:45] <LePhilousophe> but you sphlper include sapiddk
[14:46] <LePhilousophe> that doesn't look good
[14:46] <LePhilousophe> *your sphelper
[14:46] <Grogbot> <SupSuper> as for crash, all i could figure out is it's something to do with free() calls. scummvm speaks one line and then it crashes, possibly something freed too soon? if i get rid of all of them it works, but sometimes there's a weird freeze between speaks
[14:47] <Grogbot> <Vyzigold> you can use the official sapiddk
[14:49] <Grogbot> <Vyzigold> I could probably redo the WindowsSpeechManager to use the MinGW headers, I found out about them too late and since I implemented my own queuing of speeches, the MinGW headers might be enough.
[14:50] <LePhilousophe> one day :)
[15:25] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 1000 new commits to master: https://git.io/fjhvf
[15:25] <Scummette> scummvm/master cf7c1f3 nipunG314: HDB: Remove 'Process Gettable Item' stub
[15:25] <Scummette> scummvm/master 76d2426 nipunG314: HDB: Complete cineUse stub in lua-script.cpp
[15:25] <Scummette> scummvm/master 6341309 nipunG314: HDB: Add ai-inventory.o to module.mk
[15:26] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- closed pull request #1805: HDB: Add engine for Hyperspace Delivery Boy (master...hyperspace-delivery-boy) https://git.io/fj5oK
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[17:36] <LePhilousophe> wow wow wow we were at 90000 commits some days ago, now it's over 91000
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[18:18] <ScummBot> Port build status changed with 100ea9ff: Failure: master-amigaos4
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[18:28] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/fjhUR
[18:28] <Scummette> scummvm/master 9f5f5ad criezy: I18N: Regenerate translations data file
[18:28] <Scummette> scummvm/master ba48493 criezy: I18N: Update translations templates
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[19:08] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/fjhT4
[19:08] <Scummette> scummvm/master 8ec8b5f sev-: GLK: Fix compilation
[19:08] <Scummette> scummvm/master a7e30d0 sev-: HDB: Fix compilation on Amiga
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[20:19] <Grogbot> <peterkohaut> is any of ports using vsync for updateScreen()?
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[20:45] <bgK> @peterkohaut the SDL port waits for vsync when it is forced on in the driver settings on desktop platforms.
[20:48] <Grogbot> <Henke37> i'd file that under "drivers misbehaving"
[20:48] <Grogbot> <Henke37> that's not how the application expects the driver to behave.
[20:51] <bgK> IMO forcing vsync on/off is done commonly enough by users applications should expect it to happen
[20:51] <Grogbot> <peterkohaut> then the framelimiter is unusable
[20:52] <Grogbot> <peterkohaut> hmm, or maybe not, i have think a bit more about it:)
[20:52] <bgK> why? It's possible do detect if vsync is enabled and then act accordingly.
[20:54] <Grogbot> <peterkohaut> how can i check if vsync is enabled in scummvm?
[20:57] <bgK> code to query the backend could be backported from ResidualVM. Or I suppose it'd be possible to make a few calls to updateScreen and measure how much time elapsed
[21:01] <Grogbot> <peterkohaut> sadly there is no such query yet and the timing was the thing i wanted to think more of
[21:01] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> The ScummVM bug tracker seems to be having some issues
[21:02] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> It outputs a few messages: 'Environment' object has no attribute 'systeminfo'
[21:03] <Grogbot> <Praetorian> (sorry for the interruption btw)
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[21:08] <bgK> mataniko seems to be working on the bug tracker. Likely he'll fix it soon.
[21:14] <Grogbot> <Mataniko> I broke trac
[21:14] <Grogbot> <Mataniko> will fix
[21:22] <ScummBot> Port build status changed with a7e30d0e: Success: master-amigaos4. Nice work, all ports built fine now
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[21:57] <Grogbot> <Mataniko> bug tracker is back, if you run into any problems let me know. I also have an open ticket here: https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/11139
[22:17] <Grogbot> <Henke37> i am of the opinion that programs can't be expected to handle a hostile host. and it is indeed hostile to refuse to perform your service as promised. if the application asks the driver to do something, then the driver should do exactly that. you can't reason about programs if the system wont obey the established rules
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[00:00] --- Wed Sep 4 2019