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[01:46] <Grogbot> <rsn8887> So on Vita, MT32 Emu works, but seems to be slow on all games I tried. Shall I enable it nonetheless?
[01:46] <Grogbot> <rsn8887> I mean it doesn't hurt?
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[01:46] <Grogbot> <rsn8887> Every couple months, a user asks why it is disabled. When I answer: "It is too slow", they still want to try it themselves.
[01:47] <Grogbot> <rsn8887> So maybe just enabling it is the way to go. Everybody can judge for themselves if it is too slow for them.
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[03:02] <Grogbot> <SirYodaJedi> Is there a way to have the Vita version have a disclaimer in parentheses next to the option, perhaps?
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[04:04] <Grogbot> <Henke37> better idea: make it faster
[04:08] <Grogbot> <Henke37> a quick google brings up the fact that the psp seems to have three cores, one being a dedicated "Virtual Mobile Engine" dsp core.
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[07:58] <Scummette> [scummvm] henke37 opened pull request #1967: GUI: Don't show midi setting tabs if the game has no music at all. (master...noMusicNoMidi) https://git.io/JeM97
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[09:00] <Grogbot> <Scorp> @Henke37 PSP does. Vita does not have that VME chip.
[09:00] <Grogbot> <Scorp> These are 2 completely different platforms
[09:00] <Grogbot> <Henke37> right right. my bad
[09:03] <Grogbot> <Henke37> but my theory, how about outsourcing the audio to a separate core?
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[11:20] <Grogbot> <Henke37> different topic. is it fair to require that SoundHandles are initialized before they are used?
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[11:31] <Grogbot> <Henke37> some quick testing says: not fair. everyone and their grandma uses invalid handles on purpose as "not playing anything right now" values
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[17:14] <Scummette> [scummvm] moralrecordings pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/JeDvE
[17:14] <Scummette> scummvm/master de23a76 moralrecordings: DIRECTOR: LINGO: Add stub for b_go
[17:14] <Scummette> scummvm/master 324cffb moralrecordings: DIRECTOR: LINGO: Add cb_v4theentitynamepush
[17:14] <Scummette> scummvm/master 2d3da1a moralrecordings: DIRECTOR: LINGO: Implement c_argcpush
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[17:36] <Scummette> [scummvm] sev- pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/JeDfm
[17:36] <Scummette> scummvm/master 9606b75 sev-: DIRECTOR: LINGO: Added test for C2 continuation symbol
[17:36] <Scummette> scummvm/master 2432018 sev-: DIRECTOR: LINGO: Rewrite 'if' statement fully. Improve line counting
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[19:23] <Scummette> [scummvm] aviloria opened pull request #1968: WINTERMUTE: Added more Steam references (master...patch-4) https://git.io/JeDUS
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[21:26] Nick change: _sev_ -> _sev
[21:29] <Grogbot> <sev> Wow, 2.1.0 binaries already took 1.2GB
[21:30] <Grogbot> <sev> FYI, 0.0.1 release folder is 92KB
[21:34] <Grogbot> <Scorp> 😂
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[21:48] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> And now we're closing in on 100,000 commits, hundreds of games supported (soon to be thousands if you count all the text adventures soon to be supported 🙂 ), and getting closer and closer to 100 engines.
[22:02] <Scummette> [scummvm] lotharsm closed pull request #1968: WINTERMUTE: Added more Steam references (master...patch-4) https://git.io/JeDUS
[22:03] <Scummette> [scummvm] lotharsm pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/JeDL2
[22:03] <Scummette> scummvm/master 27b1d7e aviloria: WINTERMUTE: Added more Steam references
[22:03] <Scummette> scummvm/master 607b71d aviloria: WINTERMUTE: Fix WME version for some games
[22:03] <Scummette> scummvm/master e24e264 aviloria: WINTERMUTE: Added Steam SOTV NG versions
[22:09] <Grogbot> <Henke37> something like 75 projects in visual studio right now
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[22:16] <Scummette> [scummvm] digitall pushed 1 new commits to master: https://git.io/JeDLM
[22:16] <Scummette> scummvm/master 4be7972 digitall: HDB: Fix Missing Default Switch Cases
[22:22] <Grogbot> <rootfather> this is gonna go big!
[22:22] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Moreso if you count all the Glk subengines as well
[22:23] <Grogbot> <rootfather> I haven't followed the GLK process lately... how many subengines and supported games do you expect? 😄
[22:25] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Who knows. There's about a dozen main/popular systems represent by Gargoyle (garglk) that I'm in progress converting. Then there's additionally Archetype that I converted from Pascal from scratch, Unquill that's part of Splatterlight (another Glk implementation). Those will be the initial main ones I'm working towards
[22:26] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> After that, there's more engines that could benefit from being under GLK. I could forsee all the early Legend games being their own subengine under Glk. Plus there's other early games, like the one mentioned yesterday that played Transylvania.. though work on it seems to have been sadly abandoned.
[22:27] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> There were lots of early commcercial games, particularly for non-PC systems that have been mentioned by timofonic that, if implemented, could be under the Glk umbrella.
[22:28] <Grogbot> <sev> how is the classic adventure engine called?
[22:29] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> If you mean the Transylvania one, I was referring to: https://github.com/RyanMallon/scummvm/tree/comprehend
[22:29] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> There have been other games/series mentioned previously here in the channel, but not all have current open source engines written for them.
[22:30] <Grogbot> <sev> I mean the thing from the PDP, collossal cave, or how it was called?
[22:31] <Grogbot> <sev> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_Cave_Adventure
[22:31] <Grogbot> <sev> was it ported to glk?
[22:31] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Well, Colossal Cave was originally written in raw C code, but has been ported to several IF interpreters, most notably the Infocom engine as well as Hugo, off the top of my head
[22:31] <Grogbot> <sev> I remember, it was
[22:32] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> So there's no real need to have a separate code implementation specifically for the game
[22:33] <Grogbot> <sev> right, but we could state that ScummVM now supports the game from the dawn of the genre
[22:33] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Yep. And to answer the earlier question about Glk games, altogether, Glk will probably add support for about another 1000 games 🙂
[22:35] <Grogbot> <sev> I suppose, those games could create tons of ID clashes
[22:35] <Grogbot> <sev> even for the future engines 😄
[22:36] <Grogbot> <Scorp> there are several glk ports of that colossal cave
[22:36] <Grogbot> <Scorp> not glk per se
[22:37] <Grogbot> <Scorp> ports to engines in glk
[22:37] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Actually, that brings to mind a question. Does the new engine Ids feature have any implications for game Id clashes? I mean, if two engines have the same game Id, I presume the engine Id for the detection entry avoids that? And what does that mean for specifying Ids on the command line?
[22:37] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Currently, at least for Glk, I've had to have each subengine implement a "detect clashes" method, simply because I kept coming up with games that had been ported to other IF systems. 😛
[22:38] <Grogbot> <Scorp> @DreamMaster i know a guy who checks daily your progress and collects all available info about games which could be supported
[22:38] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Right. It's one of the most popular games to port, given the source was available.
[22:38] <Grogbot> <Scorp> different versions and stuff like that
[22:38] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Cool, my own fan 🙂
[22:39] <Grogbot> <Scorp> 🙂 not your personal fan, ScummVM enthusiast I would say 🙂
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[22:40] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Though I have to admit a minor guilty secret. Given the long weekend afforded by Thanksgiving, I also took that as an opportunity for a brief Glk break. And after discussing Ultima 8 with Dominus, I started looking at the Ultma 8 source, and kinda got hooked into working on porting it.
[22:40] <Grogbot> <Scorp> why 8 😦
[22:40] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> It was difficult to put down and work on Glk again last night.
[22:40] <Grogbot> <rootfather> that's amazing... 1000 new games
[22:40] <Dominus> wheeeee
[22:41] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Because the source was available, pretty solid, and not as active as Exult's, so less chance of issues with commits in the interim.
[22:41] <Grogbot> <Scorp> distractions... you do not need them.... (saying that in Yoda voice)
[22:42] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Since I was already planning to take a break from Glk for my Christmas/new years holiday period, I may wind up the year with doing the remaining work on the existing converted Glk engines that I mentioned (like removing global statics and ensuring there's no memory leaks), and worry about the conversion of the remaining Gargoyle sub-engines after I return to it in January.
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[22:43] <Grogbot> <Henke37> glk is going to out do AGI and SCI combined for the number of supported games
[22:43] <timofonic> @DreamMaster It seems PolarWare/Penguin used Comprehend plus other engine based on ADL for Transylvania III. But I might be wrong, maybe they used ADL everywhere, I'm a very n00b early developer ;)
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[22:44] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Oh, yes. ADL as well will be added, though likely not until January. Along with Unquill and TADS. TADS is the really big remaining subengine to convert.
[22:45] <Grogbot> <Scorp> pls do not forget to use updated version
[22:45] <Grogbot> <Scorp> for unquill
[22:45] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> I actually got the TADS 2 code converted, but it crashes on startup. And I had trouble trying to compile the original Gargoyle TADS for comparison to figure out why.
[22:46] <timofonic> @DreamMaster There's unplads to convert Arctic Computing games to Quill format too. There's PAW(S), SWAN and DAAD (Scorp said to be evolutions of (The) Quill )
[22:46] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Thanks for the reminder. It may be better to work on it now rather than later. If I leave it, I'll just forget again and end up using the older version.
[22:52] <Grogbot> <Scorp> they are. but they will not go smoothly with glk
[22:53] <Grogbot> <Scorp> especially DAAD as it have multiple windows
[22:53] <Grogbot> <Scorp> and glk afaik does not have possibility to write in different parts of screen
[22:54] <Grogbot> <Scorp> so if i understand it correctly you would have to render whole screen first and after output. but dreammaster did something like that for Frotz iirc.
[22:57] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Actually, Frotz was a special case in that the same window could have both text and graphics at the same time. As long as windows can be sharply delinitated to showing graphics or displaying text, Glk is perfectly fine. In fact, you can even have arrangements of multiple windows, such as one window covering the top of the screen for a graphic area, and the bottom half split horizontally for both a textual area and a
[22:57] <Grogbot> compass/inventory/etc. secondary graphic window
[22:58] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> In fact, even more complicated layouts like the early Legend games will be possible, though of course I'd have to reimplement the listboxes as their own custom window type.
[22:58] <Grogbot> <Henke37> i think i've played games made in gargoyle that had graphics and text in the same window.
[23:01] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Zork Zero, for example, has the background with the scrollbars around the edges. Technically, the text window is a separate window in Infocom/frotz parlance, but for Glk, there coulddn't have two windows overlapping each other. Hence all the rigmarole I had to go through with supporting window transparency, and having a "positional" mode where I could put a window at any position on screen, rather than just having them tiled horizontally
[23:01] <Grogbot> or vertically.
[23:03] <Grogbot> <Scorp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1amNOcma0zw
[23:03] <Grogbot> <Scorp> here is DAAD game example
[23:03] <Grogbot> <Scorp> as you can see sometimes it show image, sometimes not
[23:03] <Grogbot> <Scorp> also it have separate text on top telling about location and turns
[23:04] <Grogbot> <Scorp> sorry that's not correct port
[23:05] <Grogbot> <Scorp> https://youtu.be/GqjuQ5vnTd4?t=629
[23:05] <Grogbot> <Scorp> here
[23:05] <Grogbot> <Scorp> all those tirangles are slots for inventory but you won't use Glk windows for the inventory slots, you would have to build your own window system on the Glk window system
[23:06] <Grogbot> <Scorp> so looks like have to be a special case too
[23:07] <Grogbot> <Scorp> The issue with GLK is you define Windows by splitting an existing window, not as coordinates top-left - bottom-right, as DAAD does
[23:07] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Which would make it much more difficult. After all, I still haven't been able to get all the Infocom v6 games to even work yet.
[23:08] <Grogbot> <Scorp> anyway it is still doable I think, but a lot of careful planning and your own window system for Glk required I guess
[23:09] <Grogbot> <Scorp> And with GLK you cannot define global window size, so you don't know the window size where your game will be run
[23:10] <Grogbot> <Scorp> so idk, if it worth it. usual standard ports like ZX Spectrum would be working fine I guess
[23:17] <Grogbot> <Scorp> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/651562847263784965/photo_2019-12-04_02-17-45.jpg
[23:18] <Grogbot> <Scorp> These are the windows defined in the game, marked in red there are overlapping windows, something Glk can't do
[23:18] <Grogbot> <Scorp> anyway, there is no C code for DAAD, so nothing to speak about 🙂
[23:18] <Grogbot> <Scorp> well, technically ther eis, but that code is for MSX 8 bit platform
[23:19] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Well then, maybe it can a project for someone else in the future to convert.
[23:20] <Grogbot> <Scorp> i am not sure, if many people are interested in that. iirc there were heated discussions on forum that there is no point to bring Glk to scumm at all
[23:23] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> True. Like when RPG inclusion was first discussed
[23:24] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> But let's not dredge up what's history again
[23:24] <Grogbot> <Scorp> Now it is time to merge Scumm with Residual
[23:24] <Grogbot> <Scorp> half-joking, but still
[23:24] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Agreed.
[23:25] <Grogbot> <Scorp> as really after inclusing of Blade Runner I see no point why not include also residual
[23:25] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> I had been concerned that there would be issues with porting the 3d code into ScummVM, but Sev indicated that a lot of work had already been done to standardize the ResdiualVM code already, and make it easier to integrate.
[23:26] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Maybe Sev can comment on it..
[23:26] <Grogbot> <Scorp> I believe sev is full deep in director 🙂
[23:28] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Unlike me, fluttering from engine to engine. ;). I actually started thanksgiving working on AGS. Before I ended up disgressing onto Ultima 8 and getting sucked in by it instead.
[23:28] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Again, just a starting review of the code, whacking on namespaces, and starting to convert header files over to be compiling as a ScummVM project.
[23:30] <Grogbot> <Scorp> Wow, so when we can play Blackwell on Scumm ? 🙂
[23:30] <Grogbot> <Scorp> i personally never like U8, sorry
[23:31] <Grogbot> <Scorp> after U7 it is like step back, idk
[23:33] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Well, agreed, it's not my favorite Ultima. Though it has it moments. Even now, years later, I still remember the "Beyond fire, water, earth, and air there is another element.." speech.
[23:35] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Heh.. you know, I added in 'ScummVM' as an easter egg destination in the Xeen mirrors. I wonder how hard it would be to do something similar with the infamous Lost Vale door in Ultima 8
[23:36] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Just an idle speculation at this point. Whilst I've spent a lot of time over the last few days converting U8 code, I haven't really dived into the nitty gritty of how the engine is implemented, rather just concentrating on getting the existing code to compile with proper namespaces, and converting external dependencies like to PNG and TTF code to use the ScummVM equivalents.
[23:37] <Grogbot> <Scorp> 🙂 does not essentally mean this is something significant. I still remember "you need a bigger treasure room" voice from Dungeon Keeper 1 for no reason at all
[23:39] <Grogbot> <Scorp> yes, well, if it is fun - then that's how it should be. if it would be finished in the end, of course 🙂
[23:40] <Grogbot> <Scorp> and not like "erm, no, U8, forget about it, i am going to do some RE of Spellcasting"
[23:44] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> The integration of U8 into ScummVM could raise interest on doing some further polishing, fix some of the things that bug me. I'd really like, for example, to disable the insta-deaths for killing NPCs. I remember it being frustrating that I couldn't go on murder sprees.
[23:45] <Grogbot> <Scorp> also it was really easy to kill NPC occasionally
[23:45] <Grogbot> <Scorp> and if you did not saved it was not nice
[23:47] <Grogbot> <DreamMaster> Definitely an engine to support ScumMVM's autosave for
[23:57] <Lightkey> "I remember it being frustrating that I couldn't go on murder sprees." Concern.
[00:00] --- Wed Dec 4 2019