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[02:06] <Scummette> [scummvm] OMGPizzaGuy pushed 2 new commits to master: https://is.gd/C8vhCu
[02:06] <Scummette> scummvm/master 04cc2a9 OMGPizzaGuy: ULTIMA8: Initialize paths with "data" fallback directory.
[02:06] <Scummette> scummvm/master c6a121b OMGPizzaGuy: ULTIMA8: Remove FileSystem singleton class.
[02:06] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://is.gd/xBUlB4
[02:06] <Scummette> scummvm/master 2f91c4e : I18N: Update translations templates
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[03:42] <Scummette> [scummvm] ScummVM-Translations pushed 1 new commits to master: https://is.gd/cyEns4
[03:42] <Scummette> scummvm/master 6668480 : I18N: Update translation (French)
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[05:20] <grogbot_> [discord] <jongod> Here's a question, I am sure has been asked before, but will ScummVM ever support the Monkey Island Special Editions? I an on a Mac, and therefore the MI1 special edition no longer works, and MI2SE didn't come to it, IIRC
[05:36] <grogbot_> [discord] <eientei> You can already, in a way, by extracting the "Ultimate Talkie Edition" using the Special Editions
[05:49] <grogbot_> [discord] <jongod> But isn't that just the original graphics with the audio from the new versions?
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[05:59] <gsish> sure, the specific SE will become available "when somebody does the work"
[05:59] <gsish> that's the same answer as it applies to any other query for "is a game supported?"
[06:00] <gsish> and those who do the work decide how they spend it and when they do
[06:01] <gsish> you can affect that by being one of them who do the work, on the very thing you want to see happen :)
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[06:35] <grogbot_> [discord] <jongod> TBF, when they first came out, I remember hearing on the forums, I believe, (the developers) stating they didn't want to step on anyones toes so to speak, so they purposefully didn't go out of the way to support them
[06:35] <grogbot_> [discord] <jongod> I was just wondering if that is still the case all these years later
[06:41] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> The underlying system of the SE is still the SCUMM engine, so it would be theoretically possible to support it; what happens though is that the game overlays a texture on the original game screen, on top of which the new graphics and shaders are displayed
[06:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> So one would need to reverse engineer this additional graphics layer, for the SE to work (not to mention the new file formats, which IIRC include some Microsoft proprietary codecs)
[06:43] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> At this point and time it appears nobody (me included) found this edition of the game interesting enough to warrant several months of reverse engineering work
[06:43] <grogbot_> [discord] <supsuper> would have to reverse fmod too
[06:44] <grogbot_> [discord] <supsuper> just what you needed, another audio engine 😛
[06:45] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> 🫨🫨🫨😭😭😭
[06:46] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> *please have mercy*
[06:58] <grogbot_> [discord] <rzil> this might help https://github.com/HearthSim/python-fsb5
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[07:32] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> well now that I think about it, FMOD was introduced from DOTT Remastered onwards
[07:33] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> MI1 used some kind of Microsoft Xbox Something library
[07:33] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> I don't know what MI2 used
[07:33] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> Grim Fandango Remastered used plain recompiled iMUSE
[07:33] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> and from DOTT onwards they just resorted to FMOD
[07:34] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> even then, the issue is not just to read the files, but to play them back exactly the way they should 😛
[07:37] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> also, a complete reversing and re-implementation of the FMOD runtime would probably warrant some lovely 5pm tea time with their lawyers I think?
[07:50] <grogbot_> [discord] <supsuper> yes this is the catch, all the *formats* have been cracked but you'd have to figure out how they're played
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[08:03] <grogbot_> [discord] <supsuper> if MI1/2 use XACT then FAudio might be a useful reference: https://github.com/FNA-XNA/FAudio
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[10:58] <grogbot_> [discord] <.tualatin> Registration in Scumm forum works fine? A cant receive e-mail with confirm of reg 🤔
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[12:03] <grogbot_> [discord] <eientei> What domain is your email address? (gmail, hotmail, yahoo, etc)
[12:21] <grogbot_> [discord] <.tualatin> Gmail. I have this one, but second with confirm don't.
[12:21] <grogbot_> [discord] <.tualatin> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/581224061091446795/1224695319065923676/Screenshot_20240402-152054.jpg?ex=661e6d65&is=660bf865&hm=65156bbe52086928e602ba32aef7ad82e6bf9af18da684f2bd68e57042107cb4&
[12:26] <grogbot_> [discord] <eientei> That email is saying that your account has been registered but will be manually approved by an admin.
[12:26] <grogbot_> [discord] <eientei> -B> M;5:B@>==>5 ?8AL<> 3>2>@8B > B><, GB> 20H 0::0C=B 1K; 70@538AB@8@>20=, => 04<8=8AB@0B>@ 2@CG=CN >4>1@8B 20H 0::0C=B.
[12:27] <grogbot_> [discord] <.tualatin> manually... hm
[12:27] <grogbot_> [discord] <.tualatin> ok
[12:28] <grogbot_> [discord] <eientei> Don't worry, it won't be long
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[14:25] <grogbot_> [discord] <superpoulet> Hello ! Does anyone know where to ask if a game could be added to compatibility list ?
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[14:51] <grogbot_> [discord] <eientei> What game
[14:52] <grogbot_> [discord] <dreammaster> If it's an entirely new game, you can add it to the wishlist thread: https://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=6183
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[16:18] <grogbot_> [discord] <superpoulet> Maupiti Island and Dune
[16:19] <grogbot_> [discord] <superpoulet> Thank you
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[17:51] <grogbot_> [discord] <.xergan> just played kgb on dosbox and was surprised that it was not yet supported by scummvm, also when i can totally understand to boycott cryo, it is still surprising me
[17:52] <grogbot_> [discord] <rootfather> Ah, we have a volunteer willing to implement a new engine!
[17:52] <grogbot_> [discord] <.xergan> hahahaha
[17:53] <grogbot_> [discord] <rootfather> This has nothing to do with boycotts - engines are created whenever a developer decides that he wants to spend a ton of time implementing it
[17:56] <grogbot_> [discord] <.xergan> i know, but cryo games were fairly infamous back in the days, thats why i was always surprised, they are not supported yet
[18:00] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> @dreammaster any plans to continue with m4 development and master lu?
[18:00] <grogbot_> [discord] <dreammaster> Unless we get given original sources to a game, it can take months, if not years, to fully reverse engineer a game from scratch and implement an engine for it. So someone has to really love a given game to spend that kind of time on it. It may not be quite so bad if the same engine is used across multiple games; at least then there's anticipation of supporting all of them from the same effort.
[18:04] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> yes, totally understand it, but i really thought more people hateloved cryo
[18:11] <grogbot_> [discord] <dreammaster> Yes, I eventually plan to continue with Master Lu, once I've recovered from working on Orion Burger. That was a pain to implement. Not only was the game containing hardcoded game scripts for all the rooms, the various engine methods heavily used optional parameters. Which means that if you weren't *really* careful about about extracting the values from the disassembly, it was very easy to introduce bugs that would still compile fi
[18:16] <grogbot_> [discord] <dreammaster> Currently I'm working on a private project, but later on, I'll likely work on something else that strikes my fancy first, then I'll be sufficiently fortified 😅 to switch back to working on Riddle when it's done (likely late this year). Not sure what yet. I have an implementation of Freedink that's almost up and running, but suffering from hard to track down bugs. There's also some work I did on Fountain of Dreams over Christma
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[18:50] <grogbot_> [discord] <dreammaster> Currently I'm working on a private project, but later on, I'll likely work on something else that strikes my fancy first, then I'll be sufficiently fortified 😅 to switch back to working on Riddle when it's done (likely late this year). Not sure what yet. I have an implementation of Freedink that's almost up and running, but suffering from hard to track down bugs. There's also some work I did on Fountain of Dreams over Christma
[19:05] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> Cryo games were mostly hardcoded, e.g. there is like 10x more stuff to reverse
[19:06] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> this is why they're are always a tough call
[19:09] <grogbot_> [discord] <lephilousophe> I have Chine in my TODO, then Egypt and then maybe Atlantis if I am not long dead before 😉
[19:12] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> thanks for the insight, how you know that? by dissambling the code and see that it has a lot of logic inside?
[19:12] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> yes, this is all about the ScummVM project
[19:13] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> we look inside of things and remake them
[19:13] <grogbot_> [discord] <lephilousophe> interestingly, Egypt does have some script language
[19:13] <grogbot_> [discord] <lephilousophe> but I think it's used only for it 😄
[19:14] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> are there any recommended dissambler? would like to see how it look like, even if i am just a code monkey
[19:14] <grogbot_> [discord] <lephilousophe> ghidra is good for 32 bits games
[19:14] <grogbot_> [discord] <lephilousophe> and free
[19:16] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> IDA Free is also pretty nice
[19:17] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> i am looking more for dos games, i have some favs from old days, i would like to see running and have a manageable complexity
[19:17] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> The latest works fine for 32 bit games, while for 16-bit games we host the last version supporting those on our website
[19:22] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> be aware: we have a lot, a lot of engines started. So, if it is an adventure, then it is best to talk to me, so I could check my records if we have a half-baked engine
[19:22] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> also, there are a lot of effort for reimplementing non-adventures on the internets. I saw tons of projects
[19:23] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> ...and I wish someday someone implements Lost Vikings
[19:23] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> especially now, since the effort on reversing its scripts and data formats was kind of complete, I saw the code on github
[19:25] <grogbot_> [discord] <scemino> Oh it seems doable
[19:26] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> this is the repo I saw: <https://github.com/RyanMallon/TheLostVikingsTools>
[19:26] <grogbot_> [discord] <scemino> There is also: https://github.com/yuriks/OpenVikings
[19:27] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> from the big games on my list, I think only the interplay startrek games are missing, but i was more thinking of potentially simpler games from the german ad-adventure scene from the mid 90s
[19:29] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> We have an unfinished engine for Star Trek: 25th Anniversary and Star Trek: Judgment Rites right in our repo
[19:30] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> it was not touched in the last 3 years, though
[19:31] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> yeah, i saw that, but i don't understand much of it, i was following some of the changes, like i did with m4, hoping someone would pick up
[19:31] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> "hoping someone wound pick up"... it is always nice that someone else does the job, eh? 😄
[19:32] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> historically, we had even people _learning_ programming, so they could add their games to ScummVM
[19:33] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> i am only a python dev, not much experience outside of this
[19:33] <grogbot_> [discord] <rootfather> That's where the "learning" part comes in.
[19:33] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> 😄
[19:34] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> i am also a cheater 😉
[19:34] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> I was a python only dev as well before joining the project! 😁
[19:34] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> (in games)
[19:34] <grogbot_> [discord] <rootfather> That's where "ArtMoney" (used) to come in! 😛
[19:34] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> any tips on how to start?
[19:34] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> that is not a problem: you learn new syntax and if you know the _programming_, the language does not matter much (unless of course, it is the same paradigme)
[19:35] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> i usually start with small things, i am even not compiling things, a reason why i use python
[19:35] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> as sev said, if you know how to do stuff on python, it's only a matter of learning a new syntax (and how to use pointers 😂)
[19:35] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> ha ha. this is not true
[19:35] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> I even call it a LIE!!!
[19:36] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> Python is a compiler inside, compiles into bytecode
[19:36] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> the best way is to just dive in, write silly and small programs and there! suddenly you're writing and compiling stuff in C++!
[19:36] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> so you were compiling all this time!
[19:36] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> @.xergan ever noticed those .pyc files?
[19:37] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> those are your programs compiled into bytecode and dumped for faster loading, so it does not have to recompile on loading every time
[19:38] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> yup, basically with C++ will only be one or two commands longer, and it's done
[19:38] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> @.xergan from the everyday use, there is no difference in development
[19:38] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> yup, basically with C++ it will only be one or two commands longer, and it's done (edited)
[19:38] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> ah, Bosca just said practically the same
[19:39] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> what i mean is, i do a lot of trial and error, so not one huge compile and praying if it works
[19:39] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> LOL
[19:39] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> we do the same 🤣
[19:39] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> I would say trial and error is fine, as long as you keep doing it and eventually end up with a functioning and cleaned up thing
[19:40] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> yeah exactly, we do the same
[19:40] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> especially in reversing. You are reversing this blob of code and pray that it works, since you will never understand how to debug it
[19:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> ok, so if i would like to work on the star trek engine, how should i start?
[19:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> what would you recommend me to do to understand what the previous developer did there?
[19:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> I come to conclusion, that in reality @.xergan is a secret ScummVM developer
[19:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> also, if you are not familiar yet in the following things, my advice would be to look them up before starting:
[19:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> - Pointers: how do memory addresses work?
[19:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> - Every variable in the program has a size (e.g. char is one byte long, short is 2 bytes long and int is usually 4 bytes long), this is very important during the reversing project
[19:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> - How to use structs and how they can be useful
[19:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> code monkey please 😄
[19:42] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> talk to one of them. it is the same @.bluegr
[19:43] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> and in general?
[19:43] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> read the blog, as a student was also working on it
[19:43] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> <https://blogs.scummvm.org/drenn1/>
[19:43] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> this will let yo understand the general approaches very well
[19:44] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> there was a blog on this? i found the blogs only 1 or 2y back
[19:44] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> if I may add something more, even if not strictly about star trek: what worked very well for me was to take an engine which is already functioning in ScummVM and try to find the same patterns from our code in the disassembly (for example, the Broken Sword 1 engine is very very very close to the original, and the executable is FULL of debug prints which tell you what piece of code you are currently looking at)
[19:45] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> what I would start is this way:
[19:45] <grogbot_> [discord] <bosca_bo> slowly you'll start to pick up patterns, and disassembly becomes more and more a matter of assigning the right type to the right variable and attempt to relabel stuff
[19:45] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> star playing the game
[19:45] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> note along the way oddities and glitches
[19:45] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> write those down
[19:45] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> then talk to us and we will figure out together, which parts of the code are involved and how to address them
[19:47] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> another question and i know i overstay with the question my welcome, how are the chances to have ever warcraft adventures supported?
[19:50] <grogbot_> [discord] <tea29> I'm only a casual observer but that is the 4th "will this be supported" question today 😛
[19:50] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> this is not a question who make it happen, if you know the "release" history
[19:52] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> this is more a question on interpretation of the general rules
[19:53] <grogbot_> [discord] <codengine_de> Given there is no legal way to obtain a copy of it... You can imagine
[19:54] <grogbot_> [discord] <codengine_de> Rule #1 or so 🙂
[19:56] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> yes, i know, thats why i am asking
[19:56] <grogbot_> [discord] <supsuper> and which one? 😛 there are multiple warcraft adventures prototypes, all in different states of completion. you are basically asking for someone to finish the game for you which is not really in scummvm's scope
[20:00] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> i was just always wondering, if there would be warcraft adventure anywhere out in the wild, if that game code would share a lot of code with the composer engine or if the code might be a complete different engine
[20:03] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> looking at blade runner enhanced (and this upgrade mod, if its not an april fools joke)
[20:03] <grogbot_> [discord] <codengine_de> Its likely that its an enhanced composer engine, sure
[20:07] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> no, it is not about sharing code with composer. It is based on the composer engine
[20:07] <grogbot_> [discord] <sev____> it is composer v5 I believe
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[20:24] <grogbot_> [discord] <invwar> thank you for answering all my questions, will look a bit in the code and experiment
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 3 2024