[00:03] LordHoto (n=loom@p54B1EC26.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "..." [00:06] Tutchek (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) joined #scummvm. [00:07] Tutchek__ (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [00:16] hmm the game not stretch to fullscreen when i activate fullscreen and aspect ratio [00:17] Kirben * r36274 /scummvm/trunk/engines/scumm/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h): Restore correct camera values for old saves games of FT, Dig, and COMI. [00:17] EmuWikiAdmin (n=admin@212.225-ppp.3menatwork.com) joined #scummvm. [00:18] thegeoffmeister (n=thegeoff@dhcp-199-74-81-227.res-hall.northwestern.edu) joined #scummvm. [00:18] EmuWikiAdmin (n=admin@212.225-ppp.3menatwork.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection [00:20] Kirben * r36275 /scummvm/branches/branch-0-13-0/engines/scumm/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h): Restore correct camera values for old saves games of FT, Dig, and COMI. [00:23] http://www.gametrailers.com/player/45349.html bs dc footage [00:24] James|GlideM (n=glidem@cpc3-mapp6-0-0-cust347.nott.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [00:26] TmRx: no surprise, ScummVM does not attempts to stretch to fullscreen [00:27] _sev, all: I plan to upgrade our forums software once I am home, in 1-2 hours I guess. The forum might be down for a bit then. [00:28] I know that I can "disable" the forum temporarily (which I will do, to prevent data inconsistencies), but I am not aware of posting a "Warning: Forum will go offline in N minutes" message on the front page". But I guess we can live with the risk of a few posters being caught in the middle of typing a new msg... :) [00:28] anyway, off now, will bbl [00:28] Fingolfin (i=Fingolfi@unaffiliated/fingolfin) left irc: [00:29] salty-horse (n=ori@bzq-79-179-50-172.red.bezeqint.net) left irc: "Leaving" [00:34] thebluegr * r36276 /scummvm/branches/branch-0-13-0/engines/agi/ (cycle.cpp menu.cpp): (backport of #36266): Fix for bug #2538123 - "AGI: loading from launcher disables hotkeys" [00:34] syke (i=7186-ide@cesium.clock.org) left irc: "ircII EPIC4-2.2 -- Are we there yet?" [00:46] Nick change: TmRx -> TmR|screen`0ff [00:51] Rasi (n=carnager@e182061130.adsl.alicedsl.de) left irc: "leaving" [00:52] stabwound1 (n=sh@dsl4.rbh1.pppoe.execulink.com) joined #scummvm. [00:55] James|GlideM (n=glidem@cpc3-mapp6-0-0-cust347.nott.cable.ntl.com) joined #scummvm. [00:55] #scummvm: mode change '+v James|GlideM' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [01:02] stabwound (n=sh@dsl97.rbh1.pppoe.execulink.com) left irc: Connection timed out [01:06] Tutchek_ (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) joined #scummvm. [01:18] James|GlideM (n=glidem@cpc3-mapp6-0-0-cust347.nott.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [01:23] Tutchek (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [01:47] kogyaru (i=kogyaru@world.eastlink.com) joined #scummvm. [01:47] g'day [01:48] anyone try ScummVM on an Apple TV? I notice some resolution-switching issues... [01:51] (I've got it running fine in a window, controlled through VNC, but I had a question about what "full screen" means.. does it actually switch resolution to, say, VGA?) [01:57] I am also wondering if the resolution-switching issue I'm seeing is related to the difference between SDL and OpenGL... [01:58] Nevyn7 (n=user@217-209-215-198-no39.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [02:00] not sure I'm framing my question right... [02:00] appreciate any input... [02:02] It probably does switch resolution, yes [02:04] Ge0rG (i=georg@op-co.de) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [02:04] Nevyn1 (n=user@217-209-215-198-no39.tbcn.telia.com) joined #scummvm. [02:04] Fingolfin (i=Fingolfi@unaffiliated/fingolfin) joined #scummvm. [02:07] joostp: the reason I am asking what is, on the face of it, a question with a seemingly simple answer... [02:08] ... is because I have a number of other Mac emulation programs that use OpenGL to render to screen, and they don't have the same problem on the Apple TV that I see with ScummVM [02:08] when those other programs go "full screen", for some reason, the 720p (1280x720) resolution doesn't change. I don't fully understand what's going on... [02:08] They probably stretch the image to fit your resolution. ScummVM doesn't do that. [02:09] when the Apple TV's resolution changes from 720p, it goes nuts (it's connected via HDMI) [02:09] ahh. [02:09] would you know whether it might (even a smidgen) matter if it were OpenGL or SDL as the renderer? [02:10] in theory you can do the same using either [02:10] okay. [02:10] tends to be easier in OpenGL as you can just let the hardware do it [02:10] so I suppose the issue I'm facing is that ScummVM doesn't stretch the image to fit the existing resolution. [02:10] but ScummVM has no (more) support for OpenGL, so it's not that easy to change or implement [02:10] ah [02:10] tomaitheous_ (n=chatzill@ip70-171-212-245.tc.ph.cox.net) joined #scummvm. [02:11] ScummVM uses SDL as its "backend" on Mac OS X (and likely on your Apple TV port?!) [02:11] SDL can also use OpenGL for drawing, at least in SDL 1.3 (which we currently are not using [02:11] Fingolfin: it's not a port. I just copied the Mac OS X package over to my Apple TV and ran it by hand. [02:11] comparing SDL and OpenGL is really a bit like comparing apples and oranges... ;) [02:11] ah [02:12] when my Apple TV's screen flipped out after going full-screen with ScummVM, I knew it was something related to how resolution is switched (or not) [02:12] anyway, ScummVM indeed makes no attempts to "fit to" the current resolution. It just requests a certain screen resolution, and then it is up to the "backend" to implementing the actual video output [02:12] okay, that makes sense. [02:12] so, it would be possible to write a custom backend for ScummVm using OpenGL for output, for exampl [02:13] Tutchek__ (n=Tutchek@otava-0753.koleje.cuni.cz) joined #scummvm. [02:13] it would also be possible to write a backend based on the existing SDL backend, only tweaking the video output code to upscale the graphics to a fixed screen resolution. Doing so does not necessarily require OpenGL [02:13] perhaps OpenGL on the Mac makes it easier to stretch-to-fit, or something. (dunno, not much of a gfx programmer) [02:14] Fingolfin: your description makes sense to me. [02:14] well, we used to have a variant of the SDL backend which used OpenGL (through SDL). But it was a pain to maintain, and at some point, nobody worked on it anymore, and we ditched it years ago [02:14] back then, I think OpenGL was a lot less nice to use, though [02:14] there are pre-set resolutions, right? 1x, 2x and 3x... [02:15] e.g. the old code had to use 512x512 textures and manually sticht them together, and didn't do it right, and stuf [02:15] or, rather, scaling factors [02:16] kogyaru: 1x, 2x, 3x does not refer to resolutions. It's a scaling level. If a game originally used 320x200 graphics, then scummvm will request that screen resoltion in 1x mode; or 640x400 in 2x mode; etc., you get the idea [02:16] and in addition we also have an "aspect correction mode", which vertically stretches the graphics by a factor of 1.2 to accomodate for the fact that on old computers, pixels were not always squares [02:16] ah [02:16] but there is currently no code in the SDL backend to "upscale" to arbitrary resolutions [02:17] okay, I guess that was my ultimate question. [02:17] some other backends do that, though. E.g. I think the Wii backend uses the Wii equivalent of OpenGL to scale the graphics to a video format appropriate for the Wii [02:17] ah, for when the Wii emulates older games like Super Mario Bros? [02:18] perhaps someone down the road would be interested in contributing code to your project to do that, more or less [02:18] err, no [02:18] this has *nothing* to do with other games like Super Mario [02:19] when I talk about a "backend", then I talk about code that is part of ScummVM [02:19] we have a backend based on SDL; and another which is based on Wii specific APIs; and one for the Nintendo DS; and one for PS2 ; etc . [02:20] oh. I wasn't aware of your Wii backend. I had been referring to something else, which I guess isn't related (Wii's able to emulate NES games, I heard) [02:20] the code in the wii backend uses something similar to OpenGL (i.e. the 3D accel API of the Wii) to upscale the graphics ScummVM outputs to the size the Wii wants to output for your TV [02:20] the wii can do that, yes, but it has nothing to do with ScummVM :) [02:20] okay, understood. [02:21] Ge0rG (i=georg@bender.boerde.de) joined #scummvm. [02:21] fascinating background, thank you Fingolfin. [02:22] that also explains why DOSBox's full-screening on AppleTV doesn't work well, either :-| [02:22] (I'd been trying to get Leisure Suit Larry going...) [02:24] well, thanks again. [02:24] kogyaru (i=kogyaru@world.eastlink.com) left irc: "later" [02:24] Tutchek__ (n=Tutchek@otava-0753.koleje.cuni.cz) left irc: "Leaving" [02:28] tomaitheous (n=chatzill@ip70-171-212-245.tc.ph.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [02:31] Tutchek_ (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [02:47] |Cable| (n=cable@cm132043.red.mundo-r.com) joined #scummvm. [02:55] Javacat (n=ghsgh@unaffiliated/javacat) left irc: "ZZZ HEADPAIN ZZZ" [03:22] waltervn (n=walter@82-171-47-198.ip.telfort.nl) left irc: "Leaving" [03:35] pupnik_ (n=pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [03:56] pupnik (n=pupnik@pD95FF78C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #scummvm. [04:25] Fingolfin (i=Fingolfi@unaffiliated/fingolfin) left irc: [05:08] Nevyn1 (n=user@217-209-215-198-no39.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: [05:29] fingolfin * r36277 /scummvm/trunk/graphics/VectorRendererSpec.cpp: GUI renderer: some cleanup; added comment on sqrt implementation (on my system, plain sqrt is 50x faster -- on highest optimization levels, otherwise it is something like 200x) [06:45] thegeoffmeister (n=thegeoff@dhcp-199-74-81-227.res-hall.northwestern.edu) left irc: [06:50] Kirben: Thanks for taking care of that camera bug report. [06:55] ST (n=Scott@25.105.96.58.exetel.com.au) joined #scummvm. [06:55] #scummvm: mode change '+o ST' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [07:41] ST (n=Scott@25.105.96.58.exetel.com.au) left irc: "Leaving." [07:58] Rasi (n=carnager@e182049074.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #scummvm. [08:13] ST (n=Scott@25.105.96.58.exetel.com.au) joined #scummvm. [08:13] #scummvm: mode change '+o ST' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. 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[10:09] moin [10:10] Morning [10:40] Deepa (n=lisa@wrongplanet/deepa) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) [10:41] Deepa (n=lisa@wrongplanet/deepa) joined #scummvm. [10:41] peres (n=peres@KD118152008015.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) joined #scummvm. [10:41] #scummvm: mode change '+o peres' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [10:47] djwillis * r36278 /scummvm/trunk/backends/platform/gp2x/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Cleanup of the GP2X backend. It's been sat on my HDD for a while and it really should be in SVN. [10:56] NewaWrk (n=Neva@dhcp-40.csc.fi) left irc: " Säätöä" [11:05] Hkz (n=hkz@host40-141-dynamic.104-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #scummvm. [11:05] hi everyone [11:06] yo [11:08] NewaWrk (n=Neva@dhcp-40.csc.fi) joined #scummvm. [11:24] Hkz_ (n=hkz@host55-141-dynamic.104-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #scummvm. [11:24] Hkz (n=hkz@host40-141-dynamic.104-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) left irc: Nick collision from services. [11:24] Nick change: Hkz_ -> Hkz [11:39] [1]James|GlideM (n=glidem@cpc3-mapp6-0-0-cust347.nott.cable.ntl.com) joined #scummvm. [11:57] James|GlideM (n=glidem@cpc3-mapp6-0-0-cust347.nott.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [11:57] Nick change: [1]James|GlideM -> James|GlideM [12:18] Jubanka (i=knakos@195.134.79.123) joined #scummvm. [12:18] #scummvm: mode change '+o Jubanka' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [12:20] _dreammaster (n=dreammas@c220-237-167-78.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au) left irc: "Leaving for the day" [12:25] Hkz (n=hkz@host55-141-dynamic.104-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) left irc: "Quit" [12:31] Nevyn1 (n=user@217-209-215-198-no39.tbcn.telia.com) joined #scummvm. [12:35] LordHoto (n=loom@p54B1EE22.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #scummvm. [12:35] #scummvm: mode change '+o LordHoto' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [12:51] lemonade (n=lemonade@87-94-145-113.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi) left irc: Remote closed the connection [12:52] Hkz (n=hkz@host55-141-dynamic.104-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #scummvm. [12:56] Nick change: TmR|screen`0ff -> TmRx [12:57] sanguine (n=silver_c@152.105.236.32) joined #scummvm. [12:57] Hi [13:03] hi sanguine [13:04] hows bsx? [13:04] :p [13:04] i've been able to extract and decode backgrounds, parallax, sprites and audio [13:04] nice :) [13:04] going to implement support? [13:05] now i'm trying to understand how the game references speech, as the system seems different from pc version [13:05] probably, with the help of clone2727 [13:06] great! [13:07] well since you have a great understanding of psx games now :) [13:07] :) [13:07] fancy a copy of discworld II for psx? [13:07] got one to sell? [13:07] no, I have a spare copy which I cant be bothered to ebay [13:08] i was thinking of buying it, but after i saw the price on amazon i got discouraged :P [13:08] its at home at the moment though so you would have to wait until I went home next month [13:09] but its yours if you want it :) [13:09] thanks :) [13:14] God damn the Wii DevKit is loud! [13:14] haha [13:14] even the 360devkit was quieter then this [13:18] Hkz_ (n=hkz@host58-141-dynamic.104-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #scummvm. [13:18] damn isdn [13:21] Hkz (n=hkz@host55-141-dynamic.104-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) left irc: Nick collision from services. [13:21] Nick change: Hkz_ -> Hkz [13:23] GouldFish: but it has a nice spinning led to make up for the loudness ;) [13:24] it does [13:25] I'm now wondering if I will get everything installed, get the data converted and the code compiled before the end of the day [13:30] what are you doing? [13:30] or supposed to be doing :) [13:34] Rasi (n=carnager@e182049074.adsl.alicedsl.de) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) [13:35] Rasi (n=carnager@e182049074.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #scummvm. [13:37] Just setting my self up to run our game on the wii. [13:37] Its just we have alot of steps to our build/compile/run process [13:39] we program in Visual Studio, compile the game under cygwin, build the data under cygwin and then debug the game under codewarrier [13:39] sounds a bit like our setup. although I didn't use the CW debugger [13:40] and data is built using msys/mingw, rather than cygwin [13:52] GouldFish: You have an official Wii DevKit? [14:08] Deepa (n=lisa@wrongplanet/deepa) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [14:08] Deepa (n=lisa@wrongplanet/deepa) joined #scummvm. [14:14] Kirben (i=kirben@c211-28-150-187.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [14:47] sanguine (n=silver_c@152.105.236.32) left irc: Nick collision from services. [14:47] sanguine_ (n=silver_c@152.105.236.32) joined #scummvm. [14:49] Q_u_a_r_K: yes [14:49] joostp: Our datais builing built via 90+ make files and a number of bash scripts >.< [14:50] hehe we are bash script driven too. about 18 or so scripts to build all the assets [14:52] Since starting on this project I've constantly wondered why the compiled assets have not been dumped into the source control. [15:03] The_Joe_ (n=joe@unaffiliated/thejoe/x-436946) joined #scummvm. [15:08] The_Joe__ (n=joe@cpc2-port5-0-0-cust478.cos2.cable.ntl.com) joined #scummvm. [15:08] The_Joe__ (n=joe@cpc2-port5-0-0-cust478.cos2.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [15:08] The_Joe__ (i=THEJOE@cpc2-port5-0-0-cust478.cos2.cable.ntl.com) joined #scummvm. 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[17:14] #scummvm: mode change '+o _sev' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [17:30] [md5] (n=asd-@adsl256-214.kln.forthnet.gr) joined #scummvm. [17:30] #scummvm: mode change '+o [md5]' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [17:40] how to stretch games to fullscreen in linux? [17:40] raorn (n=raorn@altlinux/developer/raorn) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) [17:40] Alt+Enter should enter fullscreen mode [17:40] Return* [17:40] raorn (n=raorn@altlinux/developer/raorn) joined #scummvm. [17:42] ye fullscreen working but it's still in 320x240 or something [17:42] guess when your X is not set up to support the resolution [17:42] ah [17:42] oh hmmm [17:42] SDL, the library used for graphics output, will then probably just take the next higher resolution and center the screen [17:43] i see hmmm [17:45] TmRx: are you using a scaler? i.e. hq2x or hq3x ... in that case you shouldn't need to configure low resolutions [17:46] "Your X Server is using the RandR extension at Version 1.2 or greater which doesn't have any configuration yet" [17:46] yeah im using a scaler [17:47] but it's only little [17:48] lordhoto * r36280 /scummvm/trunk/README: Slight formatting fix. [17:51] lordhoto * r36281 /scummvm/branches/branch-0-13-0/README: Slight formatting fix. (backport of r36280) [17:51] Nick change: TmRx -> TmR|screen`0ff [17:54] hmm [17:56] Nick change: TmR|screen`0ff -> TmRx [18:06] Nick change: TmRx -> TmR|screen`0ff [18:06] Jubanka (i=knakos@195.134.79.123) left irc: "byte-byte" [18:07] bastardo (n=bastardo@f048022113.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #scummvm. [18:13] _sev (n=sev@scummvm/undead/sev) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) [18:27] Javacat (n=ghsgh@unaffiliated/javacat) joined #scummvm. [18:28] _sev (n=sev@scummvm/undead/sev) joined #scummvm. [18:28] #scummvm: mode change '+o _sev' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [18:31] Nick change: TmR|screen`0ff -> TmRx [18:31] Echidna (n=a@77-20-58-117-dynip.superkabel.de) joined #scummvm. [18:36] Echidna_ (n=a@77-20-58-117-dynip.superkabel.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [18:46] johndoe123 (i=john_doe@p54A27F7D.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [18:53] WooShell (n=Markus@woo.li) joined #scummvm. 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[21:34] spookypeanut (n=spookype@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust644.lutn.cable.ntl.com) joined #scummvm. [21:34] #scummvm: mode change '+o spookypeanut' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [21:36] pupnik (n=pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [21:36] syke (n=matt@cesium.clock.org) joined #scummvm. [21:36] #scummvm: mode change '+o syke' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [21:36] hi [21:36] hi syke [21:37] hi [21:48] sanguine (n=silver_c@152.105.236.32) left irc: [21:56] Tutchek_ (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) joined #scummvm. [21:57] clone2727 (n=chatzill@pool-72-68-49-66.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) left irc: "brb" [22:06] Nick change: TmRx -> TmR|screen`0ff [22:13] Tutchek__ (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [22:13] thegeoffmeister (n=thegeoff@dhcp-199-74-81-227.res-hall.northwestern.edu) joined #scummvm. [22:14] The_Joe_ (n=joe@unaffiliated/thejoe/x-436946) joined #scummvm. [22:15] Tutchek_ (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [22:15] |Buddha^| (n=kvirc@samsara.yok.utu.fi) joined #scummvm. [22:15] Buddha^ (n=kvirc@samsara.yok.utu.fi) left irc: Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) [22:19] Tutchek (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) joined #scummvm. [22:25] bastardo (n=bastardo@f048022113.adsl.alicedsl.de) left irc: "Leaving" [22:26] Nick change: TmR|screen`0ff -> TmRx [22:36] sanguine (n=silver_c@152.105.236.32) joined #scummvm. [22:39] |Buddha^| (n=kvirc@samsara.yok.utu.fi) left irc: "KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/" [22:40] The_Joe_ (n=joe@unaffiliated/thejoe/x-436946) left irc: No route to host [22:47] anotherguest * r36282 /scummvm/branches/branch-0-13-0/gui/themes/ (7 files in 3 dirs): [22:47] Added Keys button to Scumm internal save dialog. [22:47] Fixed list layout in the keys mapping dialog. [22:48] anotherguest * r36283 /scummvm/branches/branch-0-13-0/engines/ (dialogs.cpp scumm/dialogs.cpp): Fixed startup of the _keysDialog, common and in Scumm folder. [22:49] haubenr (n=chatzill@p508132DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #scummvm. [22:51] anyone here being responsible for the scummvm.org website [22:51] there's a dead link... [22:53] where specifically? :-) [22:54] it's the German Broken Sword 1 cutscene package (size 32M) [22:54] it's the only link which doesn't point to sourceforge [22:55] http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0200586/binary/mirrors/scummvm/Sword1_Cutscenes_GER_Complete.zip [22:56] Tutchek_ (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) joined #scummvm. [22:57] anotherguest * r36284 /scummvm/branches/branch-0-13-0/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [22:57] Fixed small formatting issues in the stxs and [22:57] corrected code mistake in the common dialogs.cpp [22:57] spookypeanut (n=spookype@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust644.lutn.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection [22:57] thanks for reporting it [22:57] you're welcome :-) [22:57] hope it's available soon... [22:59] I think using the main cutscene pack and the german add-on will work just as well, by the way [22:59] (albeit as a larger download) [22:59] Seems like clemmy deleted that file :P [22:59] nice! [22:59] alright, I'll give it a try [22:59] anotherguest * r36285 /scummvm/trunk/ (9 files in 5 dirs): [22:59] Fixed working Keys button in in game options dialog [22:59] Fixed key mappings dialog layout [23:00] how's the import of the freesci darcs going? is there anything I can do to help? [23:02] syke: THERE IS NO CABAL :) [23:02] anyone with knowledge of the BS1 cutscene packs around to determine what to do with the broken GER_Complete.zip link? [23:02] what import of freesci darcs? ;-) [23:05] anyone else who didn't receive anotherguest's commit logs yet? [23:06] me [23:06] ditto [23:07] ok :-) [23:07] I'm having a look at the engines that currently don't implement getDebugger()... [23:08] warpdesign (n=Administ@ter75-1-82-66-240-228.fbx.proxad.net) joined #scummvm. [23:08] those will directly close scummvm in case of a error(), which is especially bad for platforms that don't have a console [23:08] should we have a default implementation for those that don't have a custom debugger? [23:09] or just implement a dummy debugger for all of them? [23:09] I don't see much reason in adding a dummy debugger [23:09] one could rather change error to use a GUI dialog if no engine debugger is present [23:10] jvprat: Engines like the gob one, for example? *g* [23:10] DrMcCoy: yes ;) [23:10] haubenr (n=chatzill@p508132DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120121]" [23:10] LordHoto: I was looking at the easiest solution to make it available in 0.13 :P [23:10] of course that should not possible, when it would have problems with GUI :-) [23:11] <[md5]> out of curiosity, why is syke a mod? [23:12] [md5]: most freesci devs are mods now... ;) [23:12] <[md5]> ah that explains it [23:12] <[md5]> thanks :) [23:12] np [23:12] jvprat: actually I guess just adding an "else" in common/util.cpp l445 should be easier than implementing a dummy debugger [23:13] Tutchek (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) left irc: No route to host [23:13] [md5]: ludde made me a moderator many moons ago [23:13] maybe it was removed and re-added and I didn't notice? [23:13] I wonder how he's doing these days... [23:14] LordHoto: it's just that it will feel strange for the end user that some engines show a debugger console and others show a message dialog... I'll have a look at that ;) [23:15] jvprat: well a dummy debugger, which couldn't be opened by all engines or simple would have no functionality there, is strange too [23:15] <[md5]> I just wonder about the freesci merge myself, cause there wasn't any official word in -devel or anything like that [23:15] <[md5]> and usually, such big decisions are announced in -devel... [23:15] [md5]: I thought that's because there is no FreeSCI merge... [23:15] [md5]: Is there now? [23:16] <[md5]> DrMcCoy: apparently there is [23:16] <[md5]> at least according to what I've been reaeding in #freesci [23:16] hm I could just judge by: [23:16] <[md5]> reading * [23:16] "23:17:53 < jvprat> [md5]: most freesci devs are mods now... ;)" [23:16] [md5]: Huh? Okay... [23:16] that there must be a reason to give them op on our channel [23:16] <[md5]> I don't consider IRC to be an efficient means of communication btw, especially for such things [23:16] so I could guess there is probably some merge in the works, but I didn't hear anything about it either [23:16] [md5]: I'm completely in favour of that, but it /is/ kinda strange it hasn't been mentioned anywhere... :/ [23:16] <[md5]> so someone needs to step up to tell us what's up... it's kind of annoying to learn things in such manner [23:17] yep, it's in the works, and I guess there will be an appropriate announcement when it's ready [23:17] [md5]: Agreed [23:17] it's of course great to get things to know when they are done [23:17] so there's no possibility to discuss it [23:17] <[md5]> :/ [23:17] oh well, I shouldn't wonder about that seeing some of our great communications in the past [23:18] WooShell (n=Markus@woo.li) left irc: [23:18] <[md5]> :( [23:18] Action: [md5] sighs [23:18] jvprat: So how will it be done? What's with the FreeSCI clean reimplentation approach? [23:19] <[md5]> I guess there will be some sort of announcement when things are settled [23:19] <[md5]> perhaps it's still too early or something [23:19] DrMcCoy: I don't know all the details... it seems at least some of the original freesci devs will stop working on it [23:19] [md5]: exactly [23:19] jvprat: Hmm, that's not nice then :/ [23:19] <[md5]> in any case, it would be nice to get some heads-up [23:20] jvprat: I hope it won't build any bad blood or something... Stuff like that is prone for that [23:20] <[md5]> I hate to try and figure out things just by bits and pieces I read here and there [23:20] DrMcCoy: sure, but the freesci code will remain clean in case someone wants to come back to work on it [23:20] qvist (i=qvist@switchlink.se) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [23:20] <[md5]> ehm [23:20] qvist (i=qvist@switchlink.se) joined #scummvm. [23:20] #scummvm: mode change '+v qvist' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [23:20] <[md5]> that's all nice to know [23:20] <[md5]> and it's also the first time I read about this bit [23:20] <[md5]> so will the freesci project remain as it is then? [23:21] <[md5]> and it will be continued in scummvm, I suppose? [23:21] [md5]: as I understand it, freesci doesn't have enough manpower, and most devs will move to scummvm, leaving freesci... frozen [23:21] <[md5]> right [23:22] <[md5]> that's all nice to know, but it would be great if people knew about it :/ [23:22] but the code will be there in case anyone ever wants to go back there [23:22] <[md5]> in some sort of e-mail or announcement or something [23:22] I'm wondering about those people stopping to work on freesci in scummvm then, are they for or against the merge? [23:23] LordHoto: I'm not sure... they left lots of sweat in freesci, but that code is stale right now, so I guess they'll see it with mixed feelings [23:24] I guess freesci had some internal communications about this? [23:24] yes [23:24] sev and fingolfin have been involved too [23:24] I'm still unsure why we didn't have any internal communications about this [23:25] I guess it's like the invisible engines that eventually pop in svn almost finished :P [23:25] oh the same bad procedure then? [23:25] haha [23:25] that was no joke [23:25] sorry [23:26] and I don't really think it's nice anymore to just don't say anything and then let all other team members seeing the facts after everything is done [23:26] it's been a long way, lots of people ask for it, and there have been several failed tries... [23:26] oh great [23:27] LordHoto: I didn't think I'd ever utter these words, but I agree with you ;) [23:27] that's just a great reason to don't have any team internal communication [23:27] the freesci mailing list has some info, by the way [23:27] We (well, I, at least) felt it was better not to discuss this openly due to the controversial topic. [23:27] waltervn: sure [23:27] <[md5]> waltervn: it's been discussd in #freesci, which was open enough... [23:27] However, we did contact the developers of the ScummVM SCI engine so they knew that this was being discussed. [23:27] <[md5]> discussed * [23:27] wjp: so I shall now read freesci mailing list to see what happens to ScummVM? [23:28] anotherguest * r36286 /scummvm/branches/branch-0-13-0/gui/themes/scummmodern.zip: Working zip without any missformatting in the text! [23:28] at least the user base is very excitable about these topics [23:28] Well, we have a non-public mailing list for exactly this reason [23:28] <[md5]> the user base is always excitable when something new is added, in whatever state it is [23:28] DrMcCoy: I didn't know about that non-public list :S [23:28] DrMcCoy: I thought that one is offline since Endy stepped back as team lead? [23:28] LordHoto: just a pointer; not meant as anything else [23:28] LordHoto: until now everything has been done in freesci, nothing in scummvm [23:29] LordHoto: Oh, right, I forgot :/ [23:29] I guess two minutes before the merge I'll see then on our -devel list "Hey I'll merge freesci in a second. Oh and foo, bar, whoever joined our team to work on it". ? [23:29] James|GlideM (n=glidem@cpc3-mapp6-0-0-cust347.nott.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [23:30] <[md5]> :( [23:30] Why is this a problem though? Are new engines always discussed with every team member? [23:30] no and I didn't like it either back then [23:30] LordHoto: freesci people have been suffering user pressure for so long, they don't need even more for "when is it going to be finished?" [23:31] I just find it not very nice to let all your team members in the dark [23:31] and I don't really have anything against FreeSCI merge, but I'm having problems with our team communication [23:32] Well, I guess you should discuss that with the ScummVM admins, we at FreeSCI had our own issues to work out with regard to this, as you can imagine. ;) [23:32] and since FreeSCI has been a "controversal" topic as waltervn, I'm pretty much impressed nobody said a word [23:32] and it's not nice to get to know about it, when you read "oh how's the foo merge going?" in our teams channel [23:32] it's never really been controversial on the scummvm side of things, though [23:32] team's* [23:33] LordHoto: I think that kind of conversation slipped in and was aimed at #freesci [23:33] oh even better, so I should only get to know of it after it was done? [23:33] <[md5]> erm, in any case, it's something that interests both projects, so that doesn't help [23:33] after it was ready to discuss it [23:34] and when is the time to discuss it? [23:34] when it's shortly before being done, so any discussion couldn't alter the facts? [23:34] <[md5]> meh [23:35] <[md5]> in any case, lack of any sort of communication is bad, it's not nice to have sudden surprises popping up [23:35] [md5]: sure... [23:36] I guess the ScummVM team is nowadays just an umbrella group, so you really belong nowadys to your engines subteam and nobody thinks you need to know anything about changes to the general program [23:37] <[md5]> personally, I'm not opposed to people working on their own and announcing things when they feel they're ready to announce them. But it's not nice to have decisions like this one kept a secret, especially from the team members... especially when there are relevant discussions in another open channel [23:38] maybe we should move this to the mailing list so other people can join in as well [23:38] it would probably be good to discuss on there what would be the best time to discuss potential new engines [23:38] <[md5]> indeed [23:38] [md5]: I see it just like freesci people have been working on their own, and they will announce it when it's ready, just that some scummvm people has helped them [23:38] since you're right it's been slipping towards silence for quite some time [23:39] bye everyone! [23:39] Hkz (n=hkz@host58-141-dynamic.104-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) left irc: "Quit" [23:39] jvprat: ah and the fact that will be merged into a another project, means that all members of the other project can be safely left in the dark? [23:40] it hasn't been decided whether it will be merged [23:40] <[md5]> personally, I'm not opposed to people working on code and announcing it when they feel the time is right. But in this case, there has been discussion in another open channel, and the ScummVM team members were left in the dark... :/ [23:40] no, it doesn't, but it's only been decided it's going to happen "soon" this week [23:40] they're just preparing their side [23:40] and let's say we would be opposed to it and they would've prepared everything, source etc. [23:40] so their work would've been wasted then [23:40] that would then be still nice to discuss it at that late point? [23:41] LordHoto: that would let it work as a plugin at least [23:41] I think that could be considered a fairly unlikely outcome, really [23:41] jvprat: according to freesci logs it's more than preparing. there are concrete talks of importing this week. [23:41] I agree the lack of comms sucks badly, but to be honest I'm not surprised anymore at this point... [23:42] <[md5]> anyway, I'm off to bed [23:42] <[md5]> nn [23:42] yeah me not really either, but I'm getting tired of that [23:42] [md5] (n=asd-@unaffiliated/md5/x-729473) left irc: "nn" [23:42] I can understand that we had to keep discworld development a bit secrect, because of your agreement with the source code [23:42] LordHoto: Well, we're no democracy though, more of a benevolent dictatorship. If Fingolfin and _sev are dead set on merging, ... ;) [23:43] but I don't really see any reason to now do the same for other engines too [23:43] DrMcCoy: I don't think anyone is opposed, but you know... :) [23:43] DrMcCoy: great, that's now THE reason not to have any comm anymore [23:44] joostp: That's besides the point :P [23:44] LordHoto: No, that's not what I said. I'm with you on that [23:44] LordHoto: discworld development wasn't secret, it was announced that you got the source code [23:44] it was secrect in a way, that it there wasn't any public messages on the process [23:44] -it [23:46] and I couldn't keep any track on the process, if I were interested [23:46] pigeon (n=pigeon@60-241-137-179.static.tpgi.com.au) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [23:46] that's "secret" for a free software project imho [23:46] LordHoto: I just meant that even after a proper discussion, the leads could still ignore the opposition. So the FreeSCI work wouldn't be wasted necessarily. Still, that's no reason to not discuss that. It would even make the potential opposition more angry ;) [23:46] yep, right, but tinsel was special since the original source code was involved [23:46] I said that [23:47] but for many other engines and the freesci stuff that doesn't apply [23:47] but the freesci work hasn't been secret [23:47] it's been there in public, just no pointer to that [23:47] the part that effects me had [23:47] Yes, but for Discworld, there was a proper discussion on the mailing list(s), with status updates and the works [23:47] I, as a ScummVM team member, am affected if there will be a merge, and from what I get, it seems there were talks about that [23:48] I for one thought that this was done totally alright then [23:48] but I don't hear any word from it [23:48] hmm... what about groovie? it was also developed separately, and we didn't know until the end whether it would be accepted in scummvm [23:49] most of the recent engine additions were surprises to me, actually [23:49] jvprat: well groovie had at least a nice mailing list post where it said "Would the team accept the [23:49] T7G engine into the main ScummVM repository?" [23:50] but it was after it was ready for inclusion, right? [23:50] and we have also reverted an engine merge in the past [23:50] And spookypeanut hung around here, spoke about it, had a blog, etc.. Not totally optimal, but better [23:50] pigeon (n=pigeon@60-241-137-179.static.tpgi.com.au) joined #scummvm. [23:50] #scummvm: mode change '+v pigeon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [23:50] jvprat: yes, but for FreeSCI, it seems there were talks with our leads about an merge, from how I get it, which I don't know of for groovie [23:51] and I agree with that DrMcCoy said [23:51] and if there had been for groovie, in a sense of a "plan to merge groovie", discussed by only a small part of the team, I have the same opinion about that as with FreeSCI now [23:52] LordHoto: I think the scummvm leads role in the freesci issue has been just as helpers, not as scummvm representatives [23:52] LordHoto: Btw. I just got the missing commit mails ;) [23:52] actually I would like to *know* [23:52] DrMcCoy: same here [23:53] jvprat: and maybe I'm getting it wrong, because I'm a little angry about that practice right now, but it seems you have the position, that there's no need to inform the team until it's done or just a step ahead [23:53] pigeon (n=pigeon@60-241-137-179.static.tpgi.com.au) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) [23:54] not talking about freesci now... if I have fun doing something, do I have to tell other people? [23:54] no but if it affects the projects of other people it is nice to tell them about it [23:55] when one starts working on a small engine, getting it included in scummvm is like a dream, one doesn't think it will get there [23:55] of course it is no must, but don't be suprised if those are angry or feel bad about it [23:55] if you don't communicate about it, it's probably even less likely [23:56] sure [23:56] if you had some public announcements, some people could join [23:56] but if I do it for fun... [23:56] Tutchek__ (n=Tutchek@otava-0937.koleje.cuni.cz) joined #scummvm. [23:56] I don't have any problem with that [23:56] Nick change: TmRx -> TmR|screen`0ff [23:56] Of course, you're free to work on whatever you want and keep it to yourself, but let's not kid ourselves, if you look in the FreeSCI logs it's clear from things said by both leads that a merge is imminent. [23:56] but I'm working on ScummVM for some time now, and I don't like that nobody is telling me what is happening to the project, I spent my time working on [23:57] joostp: yep, though I don't know how they want to manage it [23:58] oh so now the leads did talk about a merge and planned it? [23:59] LordHoto: it's probably more constructive trying to find a way we can improve the situation in the future... if it's even possible. [23:59] every time this happens everyone agrees we need better comms in the future, but it rarely happens [23:59] LordHoto: the amount of discussion/announcement on new engines has been going down for quite some time already, and nobody complained publicly AFAIK, so it's not really all that surprising that this hasn't been mentioned on the mailing list yet. You should really write about this to the mailing list so everybody knows announcements _are_ appreciated a lot [23:59] or if it does, usually is temporary [00:00] --- Fri Feb 13 2009