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[06:44] #scummvm: mode change '+o Endy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [06:44] Oh I can just NOT believe it [06:44] LEC has a new lawyer again and they want to reopen discussion. [06:45] For the third time ROFL. [06:45] for which game? [06:46] Ah well, fresh meat. [06:46] DJ-Chol (n=DJ-Chol@p57B85ADB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #scummvm. [06:46] david_corrales: This is LucasArts, creator of the SCUMM titles. They once tried to shut us down with a DMCA cease and desist order to SourceForge :) [06:47] meh [06:47] monkey must live on [06:47] I have great fun burning out their lawyers. [06:47] This will be #3 ;) [06:47] haha [06:47] you a lawyer too [06:47] ? [06:47] Nah, just one of the project co-leads. [06:47] ahh [06:47] cool [06:48] but yeah, it's lame that people are perpetuating their games [06:48] which generates sales [06:48] and they complain [06:48] But I usually manage to argue them into submission, then they hire a new legal person who tries again. [06:49] I'm getting a bit sick of them not sticking the discussions out, we kind of pride ourselves on our relationship with game developers these days. [06:49] I read some even gave you guys the code [06:50] Yup, some of the guys out there are really cool; LucasArts just happens to be one of those big corporate types. [06:50] Even EA is friendlier and more helpful to deal with, and they're supposed to be one of the worst ;) [06:51] btw, is the monkey guy still working for them' [06:51] ? [06:51] Nah, thats the problem - none of the people involved (your thinking of Ron Gilbert ;) with any of those games works for them anymore. [06:52] Rons www.grumpygamer.com - and he loves us and we love him :P [06:52] What does LEC want this time? or the source code license issue again? [06:55] Triskelios (n=trisk@taniwha.acm.jhu.edu) joined #scummvm. [06:55] Kirben: Yeah, the contents of the e-mail will go to the private dev list later. [06:56] Kirben: It just asks for a phone chat to follow up on the talks with the last guy [06:56] Kirben: This person seems to be the senior dude now I re-read the e-mail, but it's just going to be a rehash of the old argument. [06:56] Action: pigeon hmms. [06:58] I'm not sure of Senior Council implies he's high in the pecking order, or if they have lots of them :P [07:03] Seems just over a year, since last contact and discussion about the issue. [07:03] ludde_ (n=ludde@user142.85-195-13.netatonce.net) joined #scummvm. [07:08] Harekiet (i=harekiet@g89250.upc-g.chello.nl) left irc: "KVIrc 3.2.5 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/" [07:10] Harekiet (i=harekiet@g89250.upc-g.chello.nl) joined #scummvm. [07:11] Yup. [07:11] It pops up once a year. [07:11] ludde_: I just got another e-mail from a new LEC lawyer ;) [07:12] If thats the right ludde heh [07:14] Timface (n=dm@ppp198-220.lns1.bne1.internode.on.net) joined #scummvm. [07:14] hi [07:14] :) [07:15] what did this email say [07:15] Oh, its some new person who wants to re-open discussions from the last guy. [07:16] The last lawyer just stops replying to my e-mails... About a year ago. [07:16] okay.. [07:16] Rather suprising to hear from them out of the blue, they want a phone chat on Sunday. [07:16] what do they want? [07:16] gtg.. food [07:17] To sign a licence dictating how wecan make money, and to stop anyone using our iMUSE (or 'any other SCUMM-related technology') in any project not ScummVM. [07:17] The usual... its all in some of the e-mails I sent out in 2003'ish. Nothing much has changed *g* [07:19] Endy: So basically, they don't want to make it too easy for any newcomers to compete in the extremely profitable 256-colour point-and-click market? That makes sense. [07:20] Hey, some of them use 16-bit palettes :) [07:20] Just like NASA wants to keep competitors out of the moon cheese business. [07:20] eriktorbjorn: Its a very lucrative industry. [07:20] eriktorbjorn: Just last year LucasArts made a statement that they believe Adventure Games will be a very profitable market this year. [07:20] :P [07:30] david_corrales (n=david@ip247-10.ct.co.cr) left irc: "Ex-Chat" [07:32] http://hexblog.com/decompilation/video/vd1.swf nice :) [07:34] Anyway, off for lunch. [07:34] Endy (n=ender@203-59-57-214.perm.iinet.net.au) left irc: "Chow" [08:20] Tomaz^W (n=tompsson@85.89.73.250) joined #scummvm. [08:26] travan (i=travan@92.139.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) left irc: [08:30] travan (i=travan@92.139.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) joined #scummvm. [08:40] James|GlideM (n=James@cpc3-mapp6-0-0-cust657.nott.cable.ntl.com) joined #scummvm. [08:40] #scummvm: mode change '+v James|GlideM' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [08:54] Tomaz^W (n=tompsson@85.89.73.250) left #scummvm. [08:57] DJWillis (n=djwillis@82-32-72-208.cable.ubr02.bath.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #scummvm. [08:57] #scummvm: mode change '+o DJWillis' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [09:01] _sev (i=sev@scummvm/undead/sev) joined #scummvm. [09:01] #scummvm: mode change '+o _sev' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [09:01] <_sev> hmmm [09:03] Nick change: Lord_Nightmare -> LordNAway [09:14] _sev: so decompiler preview ? [09:14] saw [09:15] <_sev> aquadran: no, URL? [09:15] http://hexblog.com/decompilation/video/vd1.swf [09:15] very nice :) [09:16] James|GlideM (n=James@cpc3-mapp6-0-0-cust657.nott.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [10:11] woah, cool :) [10:22] _sev (i=sev@scummvm/undead/sev) left irc: Remote closed the connection [10:24] jolle (n=opera@jolle.csbnet.se) joined #scummvm. [10:25] mithro (n=tim@lester.mithis.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [10:31] _sev (i=sev@scummvm/undead/sev) joined #scummvm. [10:31] #scummvm: mode change '+o _sev' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [10:41] _sev (i=sev@scummvm/undead/sev) left irc: Remote closed the connection [10:44] _sev (i=sev@scummvm/undead/sev) joined #scummvm. 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[12:34] Darklock (i=jonas@dslb-084-056-066-215.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [12:43] LordHoto (n=loom@p54B1F67E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #scummvm. [12:43] #scummvm: mode change '+o LordHoto' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [12:43] hi [12:44] david_corrales (n=david@ip247-10.ct.co.cr) joined #scummvm. [12:45] jvprat (n=jvprat@87.219.217.220) joined #scummvm. [12:53] david_corrales (n=david@ip247-10.ct.co.cr) left irc: "Ex-Chat" [13:00] Krstfrs (i=krstfrs@p5084e9c3.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [13:13] snuf (n=snuf@xdsl-84-44-228-7.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [13:21] bastardo (n=bastardo@aef.wh.uni-dortmund.de) left irc: "Leaving" [13:35] snuf (n=snuf@xdsl-213-196-245-234.netcologne.de) joined #scummvm. [13:48] Darchon (i=Darchon@christiaanb.student.utwente.nl) joined #scummvm. [14:39] Darchon (i=Darchon@christiaanb.student.utwente.nl) left irc: "There's nothing more dangerous than an idea if it's the only one you have" [14:48] Krstfrs (i=krstfrs@p5084D4DF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #scummvm. [14:53] clone2727 (n=clone272@pool-72-76-193-148.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) joined #scummvm. [14:53] #scummvm: mode change '+o clone2727' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [14:53] Hello [14:53] |Cable| (n=cable@cm141156.red.mundo-r.com) left irc: "Leaving" [15:00] grayscale (n=grayscal@216-15-83-236.c3-0.smt-ubr2.atw-smt.pa.cable.rcn.com) joined #scummvm. [15:06] Darchon (i=Darchon@christiaanb.student.utwente.nl) joined #scummvm. [15:07] What Endy said before about there not being any people involved with any SCUMM games at LEC anymore isn't true. Noah Falstein is still there (he worked on EaW http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/star-wars-empire-at-war/credits ) [15:07] Production Consultant [15:07] But, I think it was just for that game [15:12] WooShell (n=Markus@woo.li) joined #scummvm. [15:12] moin [15:13] moin Woo [15:23] Kirben (i=kirben@c220-237-37-212.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au) left irc: "System Meltdown" [15:24] madman_ (n=MadMan@ebg11.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) joined #scummvm. [15:27] lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [15:36] lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) joined #scummvm. [15:36] laxdragon (n=laxdrago@jnewman.codeweavers.com) joined #scummvm. [15:36] #scummvm: mode change '+v laxdragon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [15:37] clone2727 (n=clone272@pool-72-76-193-148.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) left irc: "later" [15:41] azaghal (n=branko@195.252.116.170) joined #scummvm. 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[17:43] david_corrales (n=a3b2116e@207.250.49.25) left irc: "CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)" [17:56] bastardo (n=bastardo@aef.wh.uni-dortmund.de) joined #scummvm. [18:17] david_corrales (n=a3b2116e@207.250.49.25) joined #scummvm. [18:22] Carch (n=Carch@80.175.143.221) joined #scummvm. [18:22] hey guys [18:23] Carch (n=Carch@80.175.143.221) left #scummvm. [18:27] Heh. I didn't see this one before: http://www.pixelguerilla.org/dott/ [18:28] the idea is great to use a video beamer to project the image on a wall and then do the outlines [18:29] Carch (n=Carch@80.175.143.221) joined #scummvm. [18:30] eriktorbjorn: just to mention, I arrived at Flux's hometown yesterday (just in case they renamed him, Flux is the purple guy who's rather small) [18:30] oh right [18:31] eriktorbjorn: do you suffer from the fact that dosbox sometimes suddenly hangs? All the animations including mousecursor suddenly stop and a few seconds later (clearing the buffer probably) the sound stops too. Currently I'm saving every few minutes since it does that rather often [18:31] Gentle: No, I didn't notice anything like that. [18:32] oh and another thing, the sound stuttering originated from the faulty GUS emulation, I disabled GUS in the dosbox config, that way forcing Toonstruck to use SB16, and sound is crystal clear [18:32] laxdragon (n=laxdrago@jnewman.codeweavers.com) joined #scummvm. [18:32] #scummvm: mode change '+v laxdragon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [18:33] Gentle: I usually choose SoundBlaster something in DOS games when asked, since I assumed that was the most common. [18:34] well GUS is far better, but far harder to emulate aswell [18:34] any news about the SoC :)? [18:35] the GUS card has 2 interrupts since back then, the bandwidth wasn't enough, and could play an insane amount of 32samples at the same time, which took all other cards 5 more years to achieve [18:36] it also was the first card with full hardware accelerated soundfont banks, had its own ram for samples, and huge amounts of it for the time it was released, but that also makes it so hard to emulate since it's a rather complex piece of hardware [18:36] anyway [18:36] SB16 emulation is far easier and sufficient for most gaming needs ;) [18:37] Javacat (n=ghsgh@unaffiliated/javacat) joined #scummvm. [18:41] GloKidd (n=glo_kidd@mnet-ki-244-78-42.monarch.net) joined #scummvm. [18:42] hi all [18:42] Action: david_corrales waves [18:43] hi people - newbie to the channel here [18:47] Action: Gentle throws a plush tentacle at Carch [18:47] heh thanks [18:47] Jubanka (n=knakos@ppp094-052.dsl.hol.gr) joined #scummvm. [18:47] #scummvm: mode change '+o Jubanka' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [18:47] that would be great indeed, the only merchandise LucasArts has come up with for the games are Indiana leather jackets [18:48] they didn't make monkey island action figures? [18:49] if anybody is familar with the xbox homebrew scene - Carch = Carcharius [19:07] HelH (i=HelH@p5B1537BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) [19:08] id like to congradulate clone2727 (even if he isn here :P) for making the mojo main page today with his post about the mini-sites thread at lucasarts forums :D [19:08] even if it is a month or so late ;) [19:10] david_corrales (n=a3b2116e@207.250.49.25) left irc: "CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)" [19:11] even if i still cant spell congratulate :D i still cant believe ive been doing it wrong for 20 years. Old habit are hard to break :P [19:20] LordHoto: any student you'd like to mentor? [19:45] Jubanka: just read the email from Max about it [19:50] email? what email? [19:50] dated when? [19:50] it was just sent to me (it was in German too ;-)) [19:51] ah, ok :-) [19:51] we just need to have mentors assigned to all our students (which we do) [19:51] but that's just not correct [19:52] they'll start accepting students in and assigning them to their final mentors [19:52] I'll probably have to pick one more. [19:52] Max asked me which one I'd like to mentor ago, but it seems, he doesn't have the 'list' at hand [19:53] well which one do you like the most? [19:53] Me! [19:54] well I would go with FS or descumm ;-) [19:54] joostp! [19:54] I meant as a task joostp :-) [19:54] LordHoto! Jubanka! [19:54] I am a task! [19:54] joostp: I saw you fixed that palette bug, nice [19:54] LordHoto: Yeah, turned out to be easy :) [19:55] thanks for your help a while ago [19:55] tasks everywhere :-) [19:55] it's bad that the code relies on a presetup palette if there's no special cursor palette support in the backend though [19:56] 0xbadc0de [19:56] Yes.. well, maybe it's the backend doing things in a peculiar order (but they've worked so far ;)) if I had some more time I would look into it more deeply. maybe in a week or two. [19:57] david_corrales (n=david@ip247-10.ct.co.cr) joined #scummvm. [19:57] before we had some checks if the backend supports a cursor palette and if not it did setup a palette to be sure, but I guess that was removed when moving to CursorMan(ager) [19:59] IIRC that is [19:59] peres (n=opera@151.70.90.231) joined #scummvm. [19:59] #scummvm: mode change '+o peres' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [20:00] hello :) [20:00] pfft. palettes. 8bit gfx. who uses that nowadays :-) [20:00] hi peres! [20:00] Jubanka: i'm glad you're still alive [20:00] just some bruises :-) [20:01] everything should become clear tonight [20:02] I hope I go to bed earlier tonight :-) [20:03] i see the battle raged for hours :P [20:05] all sorts of problems went down, ubuntu had a verbal argument with google, one laptop per child had no mentors assigned to the apps... [20:05] scummvm had no last minute problems of course :-) [20:05] that goes without saying ;) [20:06] we have Germans :P [20:06] haha :-) [20:06] I like those 'territorialist' jokes [20:06] i hope fingolfin likes them too :P [20:07] he'll enter with his kickban handy [20:07] but you have that trusty chainsaw :-) [20:08] so, what happened with the SoC? [20:09] btw, LordHoto you should hit one of those 'willing to mentor', I'll probably take the tools [20:09] I did [20:09] alright! [20:09] david_corrales: working on it. [20:09] oh, cool [20:10] david_corrales: google: "We'll begin the process to accept students into the program at 4 PM Pacific/ 23:00 UTC tomorrow, April 11th." [20:10] but you already got the people sorted out right? [20:10] yep [20:11] oh well, then it's just waiting for them to enable the "accept student" button then lol [20:11] *extra then [20:12] the "pay me $2000 now and $1500 later" button :-P [20:12] that's 1k short [20:12] s/1500/2500 [20:12] at least you got it all set now [20:13] yeah and now all the mentors can relax until the end of summer when all students have done the work for us while we were on vacation [20:13] drinking pińa coladas [20:13] grog! [20:14] oh yeah [20:14] gotta drink it fast though [20:14] I'd actually love a pińa colada right now [20:14] it's freaking hot here [20:14] bastardo (n=bastardo@aef.wh.uni-dortmund.de) left irc: "Leaving" [20:15] |Cable| (n=cable@cm141156.red.mundo-r.com) joined #scummvm. [20:16] alcohol and heat do not mix well [20:18] a cold beer is great when there's heat [20:21] which makes you sweat even more :-) [20:22] if you're under the sun [20:23] James|GlideM (n=James@cpc3-mapp6-0-0-cust657.nott.cable.ntl.com) left irc: " HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC for those that like to be different" [20:45] OMG [20:46] I've just got an email about the xbox port of scummvm [20:46] I emailed someone about it months ago [20:46] Javacat - that was me! [20:46] CARCH!!!! [20:47] WOOOO!!! [20:47] Hey :P [20:47] hey [20:48] HelH (i=HelH@p5B153E10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #scummvm. [20:48] Carch: Thanks for the reply :P [20:48] sorry again for not replying months back - it got lost amongst a pile of stuff [20:49] np [20:49] Have you spoken to anyone about it? [20:49] no not yet - didn't know who best to speak to [20:50] david_corrales: Mr. Max Horn will be your mentor/torturer. [20:50] I think it would probably be best to talk to sev, but he isn't here at the minute [20:51] Carch, Javacat: what is this about? [20:51] Jubanka: You mean "tormentor"? :-) [20:51] adding an official xbox port to the main code [20:51] Jubanka: so I'm in? [20:51] o.o [20:52] eriktorbjorn: when the whip gets out, one is lost for wordz :-) [20:52] Carch: excellent! [20:52] Carch: have you sorted out any legality problem I think you had with sdks and such? [20:53] anyway, yes, _sev and/or Fingolfin would be the guys to talk to [20:54] well as far as I'm aware - binaries can't be released, but there shouldn't be any issue having the source included as part of the main tree [20:54] david_corrales: unless something goes terribly wrong [20:54] When I spoke to sev about an official xbox port he agreed that it should be ok, as long as no binaries are distributed by the scummvm team [20:54] Jubanka: :o! woot! [20:54] there's not too much that is xbox specific code, mostly it's just a variation on the standard sdl stuff [20:55] but it can't be built without the XDK, right? [20:55] hmm. murky waters [20:56] yeah you'd need the xdk to build it [20:56] thus noone can do it legally ;) [20:56] it might not be something that fits with the scummvm ethic but Javacat approached me about it so I came along for a chat ;) [20:57] Somebody with an official xdk might want to compile it for themselves :P [20:57] Jubanka: So you're saying that the Summer of Code will be something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y [20:57] too bad there's no decent legal alternative [20:58] well I did actually do a fair bit of work on the OpenXDK project about 12 months ago - adding c++ support etc [20:58] really? hmm, can't you switch to that then? or is it still missing stuff? [20:59] and I actually built scummvm with it - but the lack of hardware accelerated video under OpenXDK meant that things were really slow [20:59] slow to the point of unusable [20:59] hmm that sucks [21:00] eriktorbjorn: of epic proportions, to say the least :-) [21:00] http://logs.scummvm.org/log.php?log=scummvm.log.02Dec2006 [21:01] That's when I talked about it with sev [21:01] it's towards the end of the log [21:02] eriktorbjorn: that whip sfx reminded me of this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlauS_HkdY8 [21:02] as most of the xbox port is just rejigged sdl code, with a few abstracted functions for mounting file paths and stuff, I wouldn't have thought there'd be a problem including the code [21:03] and because there's not much in the way of xbox (or XDK) specific code then should OpenXDK ever get to a stage where stuff is usable then a quick retarget should be pretty trivial [21:04] seen: sev [21:05] :S [21:05] bah [21:08] Carch: perhaps a mail to scummvm-devel might be better to discuss this thing and/or lurk in here until one of the 2 leaders shows up [21:08] Jubanka: Speaking of sound effects, I thought it was pretty funny when I read that this one was used for so long: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_thunder_%28sound_effect%29 [21:09] yeah I'll hang about for a while and/or pop back in over the next few days. In the meantime I'm sure Javacat will champion the issue if I'm not around ;) [21:09] yeh :P [21:10] Action: Javacat is good at harrasing the devs [21:10] eriktorbjorn: unbelievable. and it is indeed familiar (esp scooby doo :-) ) [21:10] Carch: ok [21:10] bastardo (n=bastardo@aef.wh.uni-dortmund.de) joined #scummvm. [21:10] Javacat: yes you are :-) [21:11] :D [21:11] in a good way :-) [21:11] you make me blush ;) [21:11] bastardo (n=bastardo@aef.wh.uni-dortmund.de) left irc: Client Quit [21:11] you scared away bastardo! [21:11] Sorry :( [21:13] I might have to check back at some point anyway to catch up with the guys responsible for the psp port - to see if their method of an on screen keyboard would be suitable for use on the xbox too [21:13] Jubanka: I haven't seen any Scooby Doo cartoons for decades, and at least some of the ones I saw were played on a projector without sound. :-) [21:13] Carch: Have you actually started working on the latest svn yet? [21:13] Carch: that would be joostp and wince also has an on-screen keyboard => that's me [21:14] eriktorbjorn: that thunder clap is burned into my memory for no particular reason and iirc it was from scooby doo [21:15] Javacat: yeah I started on the re-port on monday, got it most of the way, but decided to start again today and make things a bit less hacky. So that's what I'm doing now [21:15] Cool :D [21:16] Jubanka: thanks for the heads up - I didn't realise the wince version had an osk - I haven't tried that port myself. Are there any images of it in action someplace? [21:20] peres001 * r26452 /scummvm/trunk/engines/parallaction/ (11 files): [21:20] - Moved Zone and Animation to List<>. [21:20] - Removed any reference to Node from codebase. [21:21] Carch: look in backends\platform\wince\images\ [21:24] alright, time to relax [21:24] Jubanka (n=knakos@ppp094-052.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: "byte-byte" [21:30] Carch: is anyone working on OpenXDK at the minute? [21:35] not that I'm aware of [21:35] kk [21:35] So no chance of hardware accelerated video anytime soon :P [21:35] I was pretty much working on my own a year ago and I don't think it's been touched much since I stopped [21:36] well I guess you never know what someone might be working on privately - it's possible someone might pop up with some improvements [21:36] Fingolfin (i=Fingolfi@unaffiliated/fingolfin) joined #scummvm. [21:36] #scummvm: mode change '+o Fingolfin' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [21:36] ah ha! [21:36] Fingolfin! [21:37] hi [21:38] salty-horse (n=ori@pdpc/supporter/active/salty-horse) joined #scummvm. [21:38] Action: Javacat throws logs at Fingolfin [21:38] yay [21:38] ouch [21:38] i noticed some engine source files still have "2006" in the copyrights instead of "2007" [21:39] Action: Fingolfin throws an axe at Javacat [21:39] :o [21:39] there, go and chop your own wood [21:39] Action: Javacat chops 'wood' [21:39] salty-horse: yeah, so we should make sure to update them before 2036 [21:39] salty-horse: this is on purpose. it's silly to update this every january 1st, esp. when no change has been made to the actual source [21:39] why? what happens then? [21:39] peres001 * r26453 /scummvm/trunk/engines/parallaction/ (disk.cpp graphics.cpp): Implemented palette animation to Amiga version of Nippon Safes. [21:40] salty-horse: the 2006er copyright might expire in some countries [21:40] Fingolfin: A few months ago I talked with sev about adding an official xbox port to teh scummvm source, which he said was ok. i emailed the dev of one of the ports and they have come back today [21:40] well, parallaction is always being updated :) *nudges peres* [21:40] Action: Javacat points at Carch [21:42] salty-horse: i feel parallaction is still not at the level of most - if not all - the other engines [21:43] salty-horse: truth is: since 1989, the "FOObar copyright (c) YEAR" comment has been void anyway. You automatically receive copyright when you create a "work", even w/o sticking it explicitly on it. You have to take extra steps if you want to waive it, in fact [21:43] Javacat: ok... [21:43] hi Carch [21:43] Fingolfin: it's all in the logs :P [21:43] Fingolfin, why is it listed, then? :) [21:43] Javacat: is writing 3rd party software for the xbox legal? [21:44] Javacat, Carch: well I'd suggest scummvm-devel for discussions about such topics. As I understand it, making an XBox port still requires using Microsofts XDK, which poses legal problems [21:44] i mean without explicit licence [21:44] hi Fingolfin [21:44] distributing the binary is illegal, but not the source [21:44] salty-horse: it's a "meme virus", I guess. people do it because other people do it, and nobody really understands why it's there, so they figure: "It doesn't hurt me to do it, so let's play this on the safe side" :) [21:45] as long as the scummvm team doesn't provide the binary there won't be any problem [21:45] salty-horse: and the COPYING file suggest doing it, too. Interestingly, this was written in 1989, too... [21:46] salty-horse: see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#The_Berne_Convention [21:47] or even more relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Copyright_notices [21:47] hmm.. the GPL3 draft also includes the " Copyright (C) " section [21:49] snuf (n=snuf@xdsl-213-196-245-234.netcologne.de) left irc: "Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de" [21:49] note in particular: "...the word "Copyright", followed by the **year*of*the*first*publication** of the work and the name of the copyright holder ..." (emphasis mine) [21:49] so we don't have to insert a date range [21:50] well, saying 2003-2007 means something like: some portions were first published in 2003, some first in 2007 [21:50] Javacat: ok. what is your source for this legality claim? resp., what are the changes? as long as they do not include any parts of the XDK, they *might* be acceptable, but I can't properly comment on this before seeing a patch [21:51] snuf (n=snuf@xdsl-213-196-245-234.netcologne.de) joined #scummvm. [21:51] wjp: aye, but it's still not necessary to update all our files each time. it's sufficient to update files as you edit them... and if you forget it, it's not a big issue anyway. IN fact, the SVN log date is sufficient for almost all purposes [21:51] as the Berne Convention makes copyright automatic [21:51] Fingolfin: I wasn't saying you should update it on jan 1st (in fact, I dislike doing that) [21:51] wjp: and I didn't understand you that way :) [21:52] :-) [21:52] sorry if I made it sound like that [21:52] Fingolfin: I guess the source of a claim for legal to distribute source is the xbox media center project - they've been going for a few years without any legal issues (afaik) [21:52] no worries :-) [21:53] back in a jiffy [21:53] salty-horse (n=ori@pdpc/supporter/active/salty-horse) left irc: "Leaving" [21:54] and as for including parts of the xdk - the only references are the odd function call, but the majority of those are the same as windows calls [21:55] the port is basically a tweaked version of the standard sdl code [21:55] Fingolfin: what Carch said [21:56] salty-horse (n=ori@pdpc/supporter/active/salty-horse) joined #scummvm. [21:56] I'm in the middle of re-porting using the svn code as the base (the previous port I did was based on ~0.80 code), once I'm done I'll get a patch together [21:58] well, submit the patch to our patch tracker, and we can review it and comment there, then :) [21:58] if it's as harmless as you say, it should be no problem to add it. but I still can#t make any promises or anything w/o having actually seen it : [21:58] :) [21:58] no worries. How complete would the port need to be before submitting the patch? fully done or just enough to show the principle? [21:59] as long as it doesn't break other ports, you could start by submitting a partial patch [21:59] we can then decide whether to apply it immediately, and use incremental patches; or wait for you to make a full patch; or give you SVN write access [21:59] by "show the principle" I mean running and playable but maybe not including all the extraneous stuff an xbox port might need (virtual keyboard for example) [22:00] the sooner you post a (possibly partial) patch, the sooner you'll get feedback :) [22:00] ok [22:01] ah ok good stuff - I'll get in touch again when I've got things to a state I'm happy with. [22:01] Carch, make sure it doesn't set fire to the device as well :) [22:02] lol - salty-horse, we're talking about xbox1 at the minute - don't think they've set fire to anything! ;) [22:02] although the same principles would probably apply to an xbox 360 port in the future [22:03] Carch, wasn't there a problem with some of the xbox cables that caused your TV to burn? [22:03] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4274035.stm [22:04] regarding or copyright notice, two further comments: w/o a proper © sign (neither "(c)" nor "Copyright" are acceptable replacements in many countries), and w/o a proper name for a legal (it's highly debatable whether "The ScummVM project" would qualify as such -- most likely it doesn't), it is void anyway :) [22:04] oh yes - there was an issue with the power cables. I forgot about that [22:06] Fingolfin: Makeing it © with a developer's name would work, right? [22:06] Making* [22:07] madmoose: not necessarily. First off, you likely would have to print it out with a tool that convert the © appropriately; secondly, that developer legaly would *not* be the actual owner of the copyright [22:07] thing is, neither is "the scumvmm team" [22:07] everybody owns the code he wrote! [22:08] the only way to resolve this would be to somehow turn "ScummVM project" into a legal entity (found a company, or a association/union/whatever), and then ask every single dev to undersign a contract where he transfers his copyright to that new entity [22:08] a lot of work, too [22:09] that would also be necessary, BTW, if we want to change our license one day, for whatever reason (e.g. to GPLv3, or to something which allows us the relicense the SCUMM engine a bit, in case we have to accommodate for LucasArts demands) [22:10] (oh and who knows... gaim changed to pidgin, maybe ScummVM will have to change its name, too...) [22:11] I imagine LEC would be more likely to object if The ScummVM Project were a legal entity. [22:12] maybe. but I shouldn't talk more about all this anyway, I guess :) [22:12] Fingolfin: If you have nothing better to do, why not? :-) [22:13] because while conduction legal talks, it's often better to keep your mouth shut about them until you know what the outcome is? [22:14] Fingolfin, what is the risk of not having the ScummVM name copyrighted? *can* it be copyrighted if SCUMM is (or is it a trademark? or is it just a lucasarts in-game joke? or am i confusing with iMUSE?)? gaim was named before AIM was copyrighted and they still got into trouble [22:14] Are any legal talks being conducted? [22:15] ok, i'm stopping this silly (copyright being silly) discussion [22:15] clone2727 was mixnmojo'ed [22:17] ludde_ (n=ludde@user142.85-195-13.netatonce.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [22:19] salty-horse: I can't comment right now on who might infringe on whom else copyrights (if I do that in public, it could be used against me). but note that trademarks are a very different thing from copyright, -- in particular, you *must* actively defend them, else you loose them. [22:19] so if you trademark anything, you *must* monitor how people use it, and send out lots of letters asking people to stop using it in an "inappropriate" way. [22:20] and putting the TM everywhere, i guess [22:20] Action: salty-horse reading [22:21] Action: madmoose suspects the project will keep going along as always with unanswered legal questions [22:21] let's hope :) [22:21] Action: salty-horse unmasks [22:22] Action: madmoose promises not to bring up to RE question :-) [22:22] Nick change: salty-horse -> LucasHenchman113 [22:23] RE?! forbidden! [22:23] or is that Resident Evil? We don't own that.. for now! [22:23] GloKidd (n=glo_kidd@mnet-ki-244-78-42.monarch.net) left irc: "bbl, errands" [22:23] Action: madmoose sets mode +b on *.lec.com [22:24] Action: LucasHenchman113 uses Tor [22:24] madmoose, got something to HIDE? [22:28] LucasHenchman113: Lost, but nothing relevant :-) [22:28] Harekiet2 (i=harekiet@g89250.upc-g.chello.nl) joined #scummvm. [22:28] hmm.. I see there is nothing for me here [22:28] Action: LucasHenchman113 enters a phone-booth [22:28] Nick change: LucasHenchman113 -> salty-horse [22:29] Lots* [22:29] I thought you were hiding that awful show [22:29] .. [22:29] he [22:29] he thought [22:30] Nah, I'm just typing like a 'tard. [22:32] a tart? [22:32] DJ-Chol (n=DJ-Chol@p57B85ADB.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Verlassend" [22:34] snuf (n=snuf@xdsl-213-196-245-234.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [22:36] Harekiet (i=harekiet@g89250.upc-g.chello.nl) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [22:56] peres (n=opera@151.70.90.231) left #scummvm. [22:59] Harekiet (i=harekiet@g89250.upc-g.chello.nl) joined #scummvm. [23:04] Carch (n=Carch@80.175.143.221) left irc: [23:10] Harekiet2 (i=harekiet@g89250.upc-g.chello.nl) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [23:23] GloKidd (n=glo_kidd@mnet-ki-244-78-42.monarch.net) joined #scummvm. [23:24] past bed time for me... [23:24] gotta work in a couple hours, I guess *g* [23:24] cya folks [23:24] Fingolfin (i=Fingolfi@unaffiliated/fingolfin) left irc: [23:34] WooShell (n=Markus@woo.li) left irc: "Don't make me come over there and roll initiative!" [23:35] david_corrales (n=david@ip247-10.ct.co.cr) left irc: "Ex-Chat" [00:00] --- Thu Apr 12 2007