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[06:44] balrog_phone (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) left irc: Quit: Bye [06:44] James|GlideM (~James|Gli@cpc2-mapp11-2-0-cust447.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #scummvm. [06:44] #scummvm: mode change '+v James|GlideM' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [06:58] James|GlideM (~James|Gli@cpc2-mapp11-2-0-cust447.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [07:05] ny00123 (~ny00123@bzq-79-179-224-25.red.bezeqint.net) joined #scummvm. [07:07] TAS_2012v (~2012@c83-248-147-182.bredband.comhem.se) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [07:08] TAS_2012v (~2012@c83-248-147-182.bredband.comhem.se) joined #scummvm. [07:17] mornin' [07:21] morning [07:22] qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) joined #scummvm. [07:32] hi guys [07:47] jakimushka (~jakimushk@178.219.192.15) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [08:02] LordHoto (~loom@unaffiliated/lordhoto) joined #scummvm. [08:02] #scummvm: mode change '+o LordHoto' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [08:27] risca (~risca@wnpgmb0903w-ds01-249-233.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) left irc: Quit: Lämnar [08:35] nice [08:35] residualVM plays fandango perfectly [08:38] Awesome [09:04] James|GlideM (~James|Gli@cpc2-mapp11-2-0-cust447.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #scummvm. [09:04] #scummvm: mode change '+v James|GlideM' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [09:16] James|GlideM (~James|Gli@cpc2-mapp11-2-0-cust447.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [09:26] WooShell (woo@188-192-188-111-dynip.superkabel.de) joined #scummvm. [09:28] möinsen [09:36] alexbevi (~Alex@bas1-pickering62-1279734002.dsl.bell.ca) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [10:00] chkr (~chkr@p5DC49E09.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #scummvm. [10:01] Upth (~ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) joined #scummvm. [10:01] #scummvm: mode change '+v Upth' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. 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[13:04] hi [13:16] pok0j (~pok0j@aeea100.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) joined #scummvm. [13:27] Kirben (kirben@c220-239-194-17.brasd3.vic.optusnet.com.au) left irc: [13:28] kurtwr2 (kurtwr@c-71-193-60-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #scummvm. [13:31] kurtwr (kurtwr@c-71-193-60-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds [13:36] clone2727 (~clone2727@pool-71-125-67-84.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) joined #scummvm. [13:36] #scummvm: mode change '+o clone2727' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [14:22] balrog_phone (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) joined #scummvm. [14:32] criezy (~criezy@host86-173-33-178.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) joined #scummvm. [14:32] #scummvm: mode change '+o criezy' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [14:33] Hi [14:34] balrog_phone (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) left irc: Quit: Bye [14:46] balrog_phone (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) joined #scummvm. [14:59] giucam (~giulio@adsl-ull-144-204.49-151.net24.it) joined #scummvm. 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[17:02] #scummvm: mode change '+v jakimushka' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [17:02] sirlemonhead (~bduncan22@86-40-29-131-dynamic.b-ras2.prp.dublin.eircom.net) joined #scummvm. [17:42] Nick change: Vampire0_ -> Vampire0 [17:56] eriktorbjorn (~d91tan@81-234-209-7-no108.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [18:00] risca (~risca@wnpgmb0903w-ds01-249-233.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) joined #scummvm. [18:06] eriktorbjorn (~d91tan@81-234-209-7-no108.tbcn.telia.com) joined #scummvm. [18:06] #scummvm: mode change '+o eriktorbjorn' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [18:22] jakimushka (~jakimushk@178.219.192.15) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [18:22] jakimushka (~jakimushk@178.219.192.15) joined #scummvm. [18:22] #scummvm: mode change '+v jakimushka' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [19:05] giucam (~giulio@adsl-ull-144-204.49-151.net24.it) joined #scummvm. [19:21] ajax16384 (~User@ip16.net172.n37.ru) left irc: Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/ [19:26] Kaidane (~Kaidane@adsl-065-005-218-152.sip.cae.bellsouth.net) joined #scummvm. [19:31] _sev (~sev@scummvm/undead/sev) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds [19:41] jakimushka (~jakimushk@178.219.192.15) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [19:41] _sev (~sev@scummvm/undead/sev) joined #scummvm. [19:41] #scummvm: mode change '+o _sev' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [19:42] jakimushka (~jakimushk@178.219.192.15) joined #scummvm. [19:42] #scummvm: mode change '+v jakimushka' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [19:44] Hmm. Is there anybody who can help me get an eclipse project setup for scummvm's android distro? [19:44] No-one's managd that yet, afaik. [19:44] fuzzie (~androirc@82-170-37-144.ip.telfort.nl) left irc: Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ) [19:45] Lovely. [19:45] As you can tell, most of us are not fans of IDE's [19:45] I find IDEs very helpful, myself [19:46] I figured as much, otherwise you wouldn't be asking about Eclipse ;) [19:46] qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [19:46] they can significantly cut down my research times, particularly [19:46] Nick change: Upth -> Upthorn [19:47] qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) joined #scummvm. [19:49] {V} (~V@139-79-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [19:49] {V} (~V@139-79-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl) joined #scummvm. [19:55] Upthorn: what are you researching specifically for Android? [19:55] alexbevi (~Alex@207.34.241.1) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds [19:55] the disabled autosave code [19:56] as it might answer some basic design questions on how anytime saving should work [19:56] and/or some questions on how it shouldn't :) [19:58] I think I may have eclipse working for source navigation, at least [20:07] I don't know how much you already thought and/or talked about things, but I think that most of the challenge will be platform-independent and engine-specific, right? [20:08] The disabled autosave code in Android is really just a different issue. It's because slot 0 can not be used for autosave in all engines. [20:08] cannot* [20:10] wjp: well, I was thinking that since anytime saving means the ability to save where the game doesn't support it [20:11] the "message" would have to come from the backend [20:11] to tell the engine to save [20:11] Yes, but the saving will have to be in the engine, right? ;-) [20:11] yes [20:11] Calling the engine's saveGameState is really rather trivial/easy. [20:11] presumably the android autosave code also comes from the backend [20:12] so I wanted to look at how it does that [20:12] But the problem with the Android implementation is a different one. [20:12] I would suggest starting with whatever platform is easiest for you to develop on [20:12] At least the problem which made us disable it. [20:12] right, the android implementation problem is that it always chooses slot 0 [20:12] which frequently overwrites manual saves [20:13] It might do that for some engines, yes. [20:13] and I'm guessing from what lordhoto says [20:13] But that's really not that much related to your task I think. [20:13] that it just called saveGameState directly from the backend [20:13] which is definitely not going to be sufficient to my needs [20:14] so I'll drop the line of inquiry [20:14] I think one possible idea behind your task was to make saveGameState work in all/most situations. ;-) [20:15] it would definitely be nice to get all this sorted out, though, but, yes, it shouldn't be critical for your project [20:16] The easiest solution here would be to either add a special doAutosave() or query a slot which can be used for autosaves. But that's nothing you need to worry about right now. [20:24] SimSaw (~SimSaw@89.204.137.7) left irc: [20:37] doQuickSave() is probably not a bad idea [20:37] the issue, then, is making enough information available to doQuickSave to ensure that all states can be handled [20:39] Actually, I'd love to hear what you learn on the way in that task, as Wintermute will need a new save-system anyhow [20:39] fuzzie (~fuzzie@li141-249.members.linode.com) joined #scummvm. [20:39] #scummvm: mode change '+o fuzzie' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [20:40] somaen: New save system? Why would you need a new save system? [20:40] The current approach there is a persistent-class-solution that basically saves the entire object-state of every game-object, by keeping track of all pointers in a hashmap [20:40] with STL everywhere! [20:40] clone2727: I'll atleast need to revamp the "hashmap of void*"-solution. [20:40] I can see why that would be undesirable [20:41] but the basic idea of id-s along with pointers is sound. [20:42] clone2727: I already discussed that point with you iirc, the problem boils down to the lack of a datatype that is the same size as a pointer. [20:43] somaen: I thought you meant that you need ScummVM to have a new save system, not the engine [20:43] clone2727: Neh, no, the engine needs a new one. [20:44] So, if I can keep it in line with Upthorn's ideas, it would ease his work, and possibly mine too down the line. [20:44] how does the non-scummvm wintermute engine accomplish saving? [20:45] or is that not known? [20:45] Basically, all classes register their instance in a hashmap [20:45] so, the same way as you do? [20:45] iirc that map uses the object's pointer as a key [20:45] Upthorn: I currently have no savesystem [20:45] oh [20:46] and, I have the entire source-code of that engine. [20:46] so the hashmap of void * you were describing is their original solution [20:46] so, I've basically ripped out that stuff. [20:46] not the scummvm implementation [20:46] Upthorn: Indeed, and it works fine for 32-bit windows. [20:46] but keying on pointers isn't very portable. [20:46] I can see why that would cause porting issues [20:47] Action: Strangerke summons Hkz [20:47] particularly to systems with rigid memory maps [20:47] indeed. [20:47] So, I'll have to come up with a more portable solution for that. [20:48] also kind of sad considering how long it's been since everyone concluded that was a dumb way of doing serialization :-) [20:48] Well, I won't be talking down the engine-code. [20:48] I haven't poked through the WME Lite code, only the WME code, which I am assuming is a lot more platform-speciifc. [20:49] Yup [20:49] But WME Lite was a quick-port afaik. [20:49] I.e. "strip out the nasty bits" [20:49] But the WME code looks fine. [20:49] It is, aside from a very interdependent include-system [20:50] include dependencies can be nasty [20:50] Which I already resolved most of, to avoid complete recompiles for every change. [20:50] I seem to remember that WME Lite has one header which sort of mostly includes the rest of the engine. [20:50] WME, even. And, ah yes, dcgf.h. [20:50] I hate working on projects like that [20:50] specifically, debugging can become nightmarish [20:51] Dunno what dcgf stands for [20:51] Well, it has #defines like #define DCGF_NAME "Wintermute Engine" in it. [20:51] But, Jan did a quite nice job of separating logical stuff, so the code is very clean to work of. [20:51] my suspicion would be a typo of dcfg [20:51] I suspect it's more or less the opposite of the codebase you've been looking at fuzzie. :P [20:51] perhaps #Define ConFiGuration [20:52] Upthorn: Makes sense [20:52] heh. [20:52] hint: think about the author's name :-) [20:52] but typoed to be Definition ConGiFuration [20:52] (or, rather, nickname) [20:53] mnemonic? [20:53] risca (~risca@wnpgmb0903w-ds01-249-233.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) left irc: Quit: Lämnar [20:53] well, or rather, group name. [20:53] giucam (~giulio@adsl-ull-144-204.49-151.net24.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [20:53] Action: fuzzie sulks. [20:54] all I know about wintermute is what I've learned from this conversation and the wikipedia article [20:54] yes, the thought was directed more at somaen :P [20:55] somaen: and, yes, indeed, it is spectacularly unlike AGS of course. [20:55] fuzzie: Well, tbh, I learned about the engine from aquadran last year, and haven't really looked much into it until this semester [20:56] Obviously you should all have wasted more of your lives poking through this stuff... :-) [20:56] Honestly I am spectacularly grateful for just having source code of any kind in these cases, though. [20:56] so, what is the name you are pointing to? [20:56] Upthorn: dead:code [20:57] that explains DC, but not GF [20:57] so dead code group fffffff? [20:57] I would guess Game File, but I'm not convinced. [20:58] And well, I wasted more than enough of my life poking through LA-games. [20:58] Ah, it's 'Games Framework'. [20:59] Upthorn: Since the engine contains all the engine's state, I don't know what else you want to make available to doQuickSave. [20:59] well, ideally quicksaving will be possible in the middle of cutscenes [20:59] If you're offering a magical solution to make all engine state available without difficulties to an engine function.. :-) [20:59] Step one: remove all instances of 'private:' and 'protected:' from the codebase? [21:00] fuzzie: Maybe we should make the method non static. [21:00] But then how would we add all the exciting abuses of casting g_engine, LordHoto? [21:00] hahaha [21:00] Upthorn: Quicksaving in the middle of movies etc might be a fun task [21:01] which basically means that doQuickSave needs to know which "mode" the engine is [21:01] *is in [21:01] Upthorn: More seriously, that's all on a per engine base. [21:01] Upthorn: So... [21:01] If movies are done threaded, without seekable codecs. [21:01] which probably doesn't yet have an indicator variable in most engines [21:01] balrog_phone (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) joined #scummvm. [21:01] because there would be no need for one [21:01] Yeah, but you need to decide that per engine. [21:02] that is the sort of information I mean when I say that doQuickSave needs to be able to gather information about the engine state [21:02] Which btw might make that SeekableBink-patch interesting for ScummVM. [21:02] doQuickSave is just a wrapper for a saveGameState(kAutosaveSlotHere) anyway. [21:02] Well, except we don't have an autosave slot. [21:02] (the one that was denied since it didnt have a use-case) [21:02] fuzzie: That's why each engine needs to implement it ;-) [21:02] And probably the engine authors will mostly go insane if you try just patching saveGameState. [21:03] Oh, is doQuickSave already a thing? [21:03] No. [21:03] a wrapper for saveGameState(slotnum) is probably not sufficient [21:03] Since there's a lot of concern about original savegame compatibility etc. [21:04] since I would expect that saveGameState will only work in cases where it is already possible to save [21:04] and my job is to make saving possible in additional cases [21:04] Well, this was one of the questions on your proposal, I think from sev. [21:05] i.e. you have to consider whether you can just extend the existing savegames format or whether you actually have to build something separate for some engines. [21:05] can't I do both at the same time? :) [21:05] Not for an individual engine, no. :P [21:05] As discussed it might be something you'll have to work out when you actually try coding it. [21:06] what I mean is, have doQuickSave be a separate something which uses the current savegame format as a starting place [21:07] Right, but then you'll probably end up duplicating an awful lot of code unnecessarily, when you could often just simply extend the current savegame format in a lot of places. [21:07] Since they will (probably) save additional information that is totally unnecessary to normal saves [21:07] Which is one reason I suggested you start looking at what's actually missing in whichever engine you want to target first. [21:08] and part of the purpose is to make ScummVM more useful on mobile devices, which will tend to have significant filesystem space restrictions [21:08] I would want not to increase the size of savefiles that are already working [21:09] that sounds a bit like premature optimization [21:10] jakimushka (~jakimushk@178.219.192.15) left irc: Quit: Leaving [21:10] And if you ended up deciding that's the right approach for some engines, then I imagine it might be best handled by adding checks inside the saving code for various engines anyway, which you could do at a later stage. [21:11] I have an idea for how to make it work without really making my task any more difficult [21:12] Well, I imagine the bigger challenge is producing code which will actually be merged. [21:13] There is a comment marked "MSVC6 FIX" in the SCUMM save/load code, I note. [21:13] This does not bode well. [21:13] the msvc6 fix isn't behavioral [21:14] No, it's just sort of a huge "no-one has seriously touched this code in a long, long time" warning. [21:14] Ah [21:14] Or the last person who touched the code didn't see any reason to break msvc6 compatibility? [21:15] We broke msvc6 compatibility a long time ago. [21:16] Ah. [21:16] It's a pre-standardization compiler, so it's, uh, interesting to support. [21:16] I see, yeah [21:16] Especially if you want to use crazy things like, say, template parameters. [21:18] I see from the raw.cpp comment that someone took the lazy way out for those bugs in the past. :-) [21:18] Was about to say that raw.cpp could use a facelift [21:25] Jon_God (~jon_god@c-71-204-128-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #scummvm. [21:34] Adding special save code just for doQuickSave seems really odd, yes. :-P [21:36] criezy (~criezy@host86-173-33-178.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Segmentation Fault [21:41] Hm, teenagent's code is sort of .. evil. [21:42] "int id = res->dseg.get_byte(0xB4F3);" makes me think I'm reading dreamweb code. [21:43] it would be nice if those were made constants with meaningful names [21:43] Yes. [21:43] $ grep dseg engines/teenagent/*.cpp | grep 0x | wc -l [21:43] 59 [21:43] ^- alas. [21:44] but this looks sort of like the result of reverse engineering by someone who didn't totally understand what was going on [21:44] So I'm thinking that probably isn't a good candidate for doing *anything* with. [21:44] and so just exactly reimplemented the steps [21:45] based on my own experience writing a proprietary format archive packer and extracter for use producing a translation patch of an independently produced Japanese windows game [21:46] should we be writing serialisation methods for all of our classes in new engines then? [21:46] to save out to a file for that save system? [21:46] Well, there's no *one* save system here. [21:47] If new engines can have their saving work in all situations when yes please please please. :-p [21:47] i'll keep it in mind [21:48] involving structures like "struct record {size_t file_offset; int unused[8]; size_t file_size;}" [21:52] Well it's kind of pointless to work out bits you don't use *at all*, of course. :) [22:07] fuzzie (~fuzzie@li141-249.members.linode.com) left irc: Quit: sleep [22:38] Upthorn (~ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) got netsplit. [22:38] lewellyn (Byrne@greenviolet/lewellyn) got netsplit. [22:38] Jon_God (~jon_god@c-71-204-128-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) got netsplit. [22:38] waltervn (~chatzilla@82-171-63-220.ip.telfort.nl) got netsplit. [22:38] buttercup (karaus@pdpc/supporter/professional/drantin) got netsplit. [22:38] Fuzzmz (~Fuzzmz@qwerty.fuzz.me.uk) got netsplit. [22:38] TAS_2012v (~2012@c83-248-147-182.bredband.comhem.se) got netsplit. [22:38] qptain_Nemo (~qN@81.200.28.83) got netsplit. 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