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[01:58] <timofonic> SCI activity. Great! :D
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[02:49] <tsoliman> Strangerke or dreammaster: I got 2 copies of a TsAGE game: Silent Steel. Not even sure if it fits the criteria yet (never played it). Let me know if you would like a copy. Seems like urban runner at first glance
[02:53] <tsoliman> it seems like it is a movie that pauses so you can pick one of several choices? Doesn't seem like there's inventory or anything.
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[05:14] <Strangerke> tsoliman: If you read the logs: yes, we have this one too. It uses a later version of TsAGE engine (TsAGEWin or TsAGE32, I can't remember).
[05:14] <Strangerke> tsoliman: So maybe, one day...
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[07:13] <Strangerke> hi guys
[07:13] <Hkz> Strangerke!
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[07:16] <Strangerke> Hey Hkz! :)
[07:16] <Strangerke> How are you! :)
[07:17] <Strangerke> And how is that italian floppy set of Fascination? :D
[07:17] <Strangerke> Is it detected properly at least?
[07:17] <Hkz> Strangerke, fine with a slight backache from country work
[07:18] <Hkz> no idea, i'm dumping the box of games just now
[07:18] <Hkz> got home a few minutes ago
[07:18] <Strangerke> ok, nice :)
[07:18] <vendu> hey strangerke :)
[07:18] <Strangerke> I guess you didn't receive yet Robin?
[07:18] <vendu> good morning everyone :P
[07:18] <Strangerke> hi vendu
[07:19] <Hkz> Strangerke, nope, but mail delivery is around 15
[07:19] <vendu> how's it going?
[07:19] <Hkz> vendu, hi
[07:19] <vendu> heya hkz :)
[07:19] <Strangerke> Hkz: Tsk, it seems so slow when you're badly expecting something
[07:20] <Hkz> heh :)
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[07:51] <CIA-136> Filippos Karapetis master * r6b38731 / (4 files in 2 dirs): SCI: Implement savegame deletion functionality in SCI32 - http://git.io/31pziw
[07:52] <vendu> ooh, work on sci32 :) anyone know how far gabriel knight 1 (sins of the fathers) might be from being completeable? :)
[08:03] <CIA-136> Filippos Karapetis master * rc3f0a42 / (2 files): SCI: kMakeSaveFileName is actually using virtual savegame IDs - http://git.io/Sux2fg
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[08:04] <[md5]> hello everyone!
[08:05] <[md5]> vendu: GK1 has been completable for some time now, but it has several graphical glitches
[08:05] <[md5]> vendu: so, if you wish, you can play it, but it's not yet supported in its current state
[08:06] <[md5]> and now I got to go :) later
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[08:43] <James|GlideM> Seem to have some SPAM on the forum http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?p=72539#72539
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[11:00] <WooShell> miau
[11:03] <DrMcCoy> Moo
[11:05] <StraToN> woof
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[13:50] <CIA-136> Matthew Hoops master * rd789df8 / (7 files): GRAPHICS: Add palette start index and color count functions to ImageDecoder - http://git.io/p2sBNg
[13:50] <CIA-136> Matthew Hoops master * rb253a05 / (4 files in 3 dirs): GRAPHICS: Hide the WinCursor implementation - http://git.io/QJmGew
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[14:12] <khalek> so what is the preferred method of sending patches now, sourceforge, github, email or ?
[14:12] <LordHoto> github
[14:13] <khalek> thanks, will look into that then
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[15:01] <CIA-136> Fabio Battaglia master * r623ae7f / engines/cruise/detection.cpp : CRUISE: Add detection entry for Amiga Italian ver - http://git.io/Ut6K1w
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[15:04] <CIA-136> Fabio Battaglia master * ref280e8 / engines/cruise/detection.cpp : CRUISE: Correct Italian detection entry - http://git.io/fADWrg
[15:10] <digitall> Hkz: Thanks... but any other changes expected?
[15:10] <Hkz> digitall, hopefully not
[15:10] <digitall> Just that I'm trying to merge up the Cruise refactoring... and master changes beyond small ones would create major headaches.
[15:10] <digitall> detection should be fine... as that file wasn't touched IIRC
[15:10] <Hkz> don't worry :)
[15:11] <Hkz> just added that because i finished dumping a few games, nothing left to add
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[15:11] <digitall> Ah cool... Thanks.
[15:12] <Strangerke> Hkz: Euh... Not even a little Facination detection to add?
[15:12] <Hkz> Strangerke, that one got detected fine
[15:12] <Strangerke> Ha ok, I misunderstood your PM then
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[15:15] <Hkz> Strangerke, nah that one was for cruise
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[15:21] <Hkz> well, in turn cruise still doesn't work
[15:21] <Hkz> Could not setup language data for your version!
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[15:26] <Hkz> unless i leave it detected as english... in that case it works fine, in italian
[15:26] <Strangerke> Are you sure it's italian?
[15:26] <Strangerke> ho :/
[15:26] <madmoose> ahoy scallywags
[15:26] <Strangerke> madmoose: Hi mulderwags
[15:27] <madmoose> I said scallywags, not scullywags
[15:27] <madmoose> please, at least get your x-file references right.
[15:27] <Strangerke> right. Hi malderwags!
[15:28] <madmoose> Better.
[15:28] <madmoose> I guess... :P
[15:29] <Strangerke> ;)
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[16:01] <Guest62023> hi
[16:01] <Guest62023> !list
[16:01] <DrMcCoy> Guest62023: A list of the supported games can be found here: http://www.scummvm.org/compatibility.php
[16:02] <Guest62023> for films???
[16:02] <alexbevi> Guest62023: you're probably in the wrong channel ...
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[16:04] <clone2727> At least it wasn't photoshop again
[16:05] <alexbevi> msg scumm-warez xdcc send #1
[16:05] <alexbevi> dang
[16:05] <Strangerke> :D
[16:06] <alexbevi> i'm kind of curious where that guest thought he was
[16:06] <alexbevi> scummvm == films?
[16:07] <Strangerke> yep, not obvious
[16:10] <WooShell> at least he got the "scum" part right..
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[16:59] <LordHoto> Hkz: That's probably because your Italian version does not feature a DELPHINE.LNG file with menu etc. strings.
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[17:00] <LordHoto> Hkz: So you need to add these strings to ScummVM, see CruiseEngine::loadLanguageStrings in cruise.cpp starting on line 134
[17:08] <Hkz> LordHoto, aha, that is indeed the case
[17:08] <Hkz> thanks
[17:08] <TMM> so... I heard MD5 has magical powers of showing up when you talk about him or SCI games?
[17:08] <Hkz> digitall, better wait for your merge before i fiddle with those?
[17:08] Action: TMM twiddles his thumbs
[17:09] <LordHoto> Hkz: Had the same problems with my German Amiga version back when I added it ;-P
[17:09] <Hkz> LordHoto, i'll check the menu on an amiga emulator and then add it that way
[17:10] <Hkz> once i make sure this won't make digitall run after me with something sharp
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[17:45] <digitall> Hkz: No need to wait... Just add the required strings as I don't think that region conflicts anyway...
[17:46] <digitall> I'll do the required rebase/merging work to put the new refactoring on top...
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[18:13] <CIA-136> Fabio Battaglia master * r3296e87 / (3 files): CRUISE: Add italian language strings - http://git.io/T4DMcg
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[18:29] <CIA-136> Eugene Sandulenko master * rec7dfed / NEWS : NEWS: Add GUI-related items. - http://git.io/wH5UeA
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[19:11] <Tomaz^> I guess noone in here really had to ever deal with dxt compression and the fact its covered by S3 patent?
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[19:13] <TMM> Tomaz^, you can download addon libraries for mesa to deal with it for most hardware
[19:14] <Tomaz^> Not part of my yet to be asked question
[19:14] <TMM> Tomaz^, if you live in a country where software patents don't apply, or at least that patent. any place other than the US should be fine
[19:14] <TMM> Tomaz^, ah, my apologies. I did have to deal with it in that I wanted to play quake 4
[19:14] <Tomaz^> I have to load a dxt compressed image and extract the alpha channel
[19:14] <TMM> ah
[19:14] <Tomaz^> And I'm unsure on what the patent actually prohibits me to do
[19:15] <Tomaz^> such as, an algorithm that just grabs the alpha channel is very different from the algorithm that S3 patented
[19:15] <Tomaz^> So I'm trying to figure out if doing such a thing would be legal and not covered by the patent
[19:15] <TMM> hmm, that's more of a lawyer than a technical question. but I do think that the S3 patent specifically deals with doing the unpacking on a GPU
[19:15] <TMM> if I remember correctly
[19:16] <TMM> did you read the patent?
[19:16] <Tomaz^> Well I read that a friend wrote S2TC ( he's currently afk so I can't ask him directly )
[19:16] <Tomaz^> which was a "simpler" algorithm for dealing with dxt and apparently that might be outside the patent
[19:16] <Tomaz^> which is why i figured an algo that just grabs the alpha would also be legal
[19:16] <Tomaz^> but i dunno
[19:19] <TMM> well, it's really just a matter of what it says in the patent. You can't really patent a file format as such from how I understand it
[19:21] <TMM> but IANAL :P
[19:23] <somaen> Isn't patents just a case of doing SOMETHING different from what they say to be on the safe side?
[19:23] <somaen> Although... IAANAL
[19:23] <TMM> I am a north americal lawyer?
[19:24] <somaen> IA also NAL
[19:24] <TMM> ahh
[19:25] <Tomaz^> I "could" work around it by firing up opengl
[19:25] <Tomaz^> feed it the dxt data as just that
[19:25] <Tomaz^> render to texture
[19:25] <Tomaz^> grab pixels from that
[19:25] <TMM> well, do you need to do it offline or do you need it as part of a running program?
[19:25] <Tomaz^> but it feels like a really dumb way to work around it
[19:25] <Tomaz^> offline
[19:26] <somaen> Then just do that once, and store the results for future use?
[19:26] <Tomaz^> im not even sure i can fire up opengl without a window
[19:26] <Tomaz^> can't do that
[19:26] <Tomaz^> well i could
[19:26] <Tomaz^> but i only need the result once
[19:26] <Tomaz^> but for a couple hundred images
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[19:26] <Tomaz^> so caching is pointless
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[19:29] <TMM> well, if you only need to do it once you can run your software on one of my boxes in europe if you'd like
[19:29] <TMM> that should work around it :P
[19:29] <Tomaz^> basically what I am doing is reading an image, the alpha channel, and using the information to create a 2D mesh just covering the parts thats needed
[19:30] <Tomaz^> this saves alot of computation ingame since most "sprites" are 50%+ alpha 0
[19:30] <Tomaz^> so this cuts down the amount of pixel computations
[19:30] <Tomaz^> works perfect on tga but our end graphics will be dds so I needed a way to load alpha channel information from them
[19:31] <Tomaz^> I am in Europe as well
[19:31] <Tomaz^> I just want to avoid Patent issues even if they potentially don't apply here
[19:32] <TMM> well, if you need to run it offline and you're not exporting any software that has the s3tc capability built in and you're in europe
[19:32] <TMM> then I think you're pretty much ok
[19:32] <Tomaz^> might be, might be
[19:33] <TMM> but, IANAL, as I said if you want to be sure talk to a lawyer, but with my understanding of the whole thing, s3tc is not 'protected' in europe, so running and distributing software that uses it can't be a problem
[19:33] <TMM> if you then not sell software that uses s3tc internally then I do not see how you could possibly be infringing anything
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[19:48] <TMM> is there maybe an SCI expert here? I was hoping to maybe be able to do something useful to the engine. I took a week off and I was thinking that I could spend some time of that on some SCI bugs/features?
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[20:02] <TMM> I'm not entirely sure where to start :) that's why I talked :) so if anyone could spend a little time answering stupid questions? that would be great
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[20:10] <Strangerke> TMM: Just ask you questions, hopefully someone will answer
[20:10] <Strangerke> your
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[20:16] <TMM> well, it's really just about where to start, I've been running some unsupported SCI games and seen some debug messages, there's the scrollbox thing that looks interesting, or even something like the vibratemouse
[20:16] <TMM> still wonder what that's supposed to do
[20:16] <TMM> but aaanyway :)
[20:16] <clone2727> so do we
[20:17] <TMM> ah
[20:17] <TMM> I imagine it has to be the cursor... what else could it be? I looked all over the internets and it doesn't appear there ever was a mouse with haptic feedback
[20:18] <TMM> as I said, it's kind of hard to see where to start. I don't really understand the drawing or pallet system I just wondered if there was information that I really need to read
[20:19] <TMM> and well, if there are sort of 'janitorial tasks' that I could do to get into the codebase while doing something worthwhile
[20:20] <LordHoto> There seems to be 22 comments including "HACK" in the SCI engine, so you might look at that, check what the original is doing, by REing the original interpreter and try to fix it.
[20:22] <TMM> do annotated disassemblies already exist within the project?
[20:22] <TMM> or does every contributer have to 'start from scratch' so to speak?
[20:23] <LordHoto> I guess some people might have some annotated disassemblies.
[20:25] <LordHoto> But we don't have any central place where people can grab those.
[20:26] <TMM> ok
[20:27] <LordHoto> If you want to work on some unsupported game there's probably a lot to be done even on exisiting disassemblies.
[20:28] <TMM> well, I figured that maybe that someone had an idea of what needs to be done
[20:28] <TMM> coming from 0 it's all quite overwhelming
[20:30] <LordHoto> There's some TODO list here: http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/SCI/TODO
[20:32] <TMM> yeah, I found those, I also found the place where they bomb in the games
[20:32] <waltervn> that list seems to be out-of-date
[20:33] <clone2727> some of it ;)
[20:35] <TMM> well, I could have a look at the pallet animation thing I guess. It's easy enough to see what it should do using an emulator. I'm sure the pallets are somewhere so figuring out what transformation is done to the existing one should be possible?
[20:35] <TMM> starting with say, the LSL6 intro
[20:35] <TMM> lsl6highres
[20:36] <waltervn> the problem with the newer games is that the foundation we have there is mostly just guesswork. AFAIK no serious reverse engineering work has been done.
[20:37] <LordHoto> Sounds like starting some disassembly is a good start then ;-)
[20:37] <Mataniko> waltervn: has anyone reached out to al lowe since they got the rights for lsl back
[20:37] <waltervn> Mataniko: they don't have the right back, they only have a license to do one remake
[20:37] <waltervn> *rights
[20:37] <Mataniko> ah
[20:41] <TMM> well, yes, I guess I could start making an annotated disassembly
[20:42] <TMM> I guess I looking through scummvm code may even help with that :)
[20:43] <TMM> I'll just try some stuff then, I was hoping there were some more bite-sized things to do
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[20:47] <waltervn> Reverse engineering the later SCI games is annoying because of the relatively modern compiler. So you're facing virtual functions, unrolled loops, inlined functions and all kinds of other stuff that takes up a lot of your time.
[20:48] <TMM> ah
[20:50] <TMM> I should probably just start with an SCI2 interpreter then?
[20:50] <TMM> it seems that that is where support currently stops, right?
[20:50] <LordHoto> I think that's there the "later SCI games" start too ;-)
[20:50] <waltervn> Right
[20:51] <waltervn> There's also some stuff in SCI1.1 that could use work, like figuring out how the engine manages multiple songs being played simultaneously and how channels are allocated in that case.
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[20:52] <waltervn> I've been gone a year now, so perhaps some progress has been made in those areas, not sure.
[20:53] <waltervn> SCI1.1 and SCI1 too, regarding that music issue I just mentioned
[20:53] <waltervn> has anyone ever tried to contact the people that run realmserver.com?
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[20:54] <TMM> well, the music stuff is really quite cosmetic considering all the games that cannot really be played at all :)
[20:55] <waltervn> Yes, but for me it's still serious enough to use dosbox instead (and I'm saying this is an ex-scummvm developer ;)
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[20:58] <TMM> really? ok?
[20:59] <TMM> well, I dislike dosbox so much that I'd rather fix scummvm for the games I want to play than use it :P
[21:00] <TMM> LordHoto, what version of the interpreter do you suggest I start with? I have GK1 (from GOG) as an SCI2 game?
[21:00] <TMM> LordHoto, use dos or windows version? any tips on that front?
[21:01] <Hkz> as long as you remember to legally own the version you use... ;-)
[21:02] <LordHoto> TMM: I guess I can't suggest anything here ;-) I'm not into SCI.
[21:02] <TMM> Hkz, I do :)
[21:02] <TMM> many many many times over for the SCI interpreter
[21:02] <TMM> don't think there's a single piece of software I have more licenses to :P
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[22:40] <sirlemonhead> was it normal for DOS games to have different sound "driver" files for adlib/soundblaster etc?
[22:41] <sirlemonhead> the game i'm looking at seems to read one of these files into a buffer and make function calls into that buffer..IDA doesn't make any sense of the files though
[22:41] <clone2727> yes
[22:42] <sirlemonhead> I just need to figure out what sample rate etc to play the samples at but i cant figure out where to find that information
[22:46] <sirlemonhead> i've tried a few combinations with audacity but nothing sounds right :\
[22:49] <clone2727> Well, that makes sense since AdLib instruments aren't raw samples ;)
[22:50] <sirlemonhead> the game does have digital sound effects..some speech
[22:51] <sirlemonhead> i'm not actually sure where the music stuff is stored..
[22:52] <DrMcCoy> Good luck in finding the music in the data files. There's no one true format for AdLib music; you need to find the player in the disasm and how it shoves the data into the AdLib registers :P
[22:52] <sirlemonhead> oh great :D
[22:54] <DrMcCoy> Basically everyone has their own format, and their own player that manipulated the hardware in some way to play the music specified by that format :P
[22:54] <sirlemonhead> waht about digital sound effects?
[22:54] <DrMcCoy> Depends
[22:54] <clone2727> Probably raw PCM or Creative ADPCM
[22:55] <DrMcCoy> If it's raw PCM, those are mostly easy to identify. And of course you won't need to look at how it's played (except for the sampling rate, if those vary ingame)
[22:56] <DrMcCoy> It might just be one of the 1000 ADPCM variants :P
[22:56] <sirlemonhead> i'm trying them in audacity with the raw import option but they're not playing correctly at all

[22:57] <sirlemonhead> oh great :P
[22:57] <DrMcCoy> In that case, you would need to look at the code/disasm :P
[22:58] <sirlemonhead> i dont know how to disassemble the driver files at all
[22:58] <sirlemonhead> IDA can't make any sense of them
[23:00] <DrMcCoy> That might be for a lot of reasons. No function table in the file, or a non-standard one, in which case you need to find the functions yourself (and the start of the code blocks)
[23:00] <sirlemonhead> will it just be a standard C file?
[23:00] <sirlemonhead> or assembly?
[23:00] <sirlemonhead> any idea how they wrote these drivers generally?
[23:01] <DrMcCoy> Well, what you get to see is assembly. What it was originally depends on the people; it might have been anything from asm over C to pascal
[23:01] <sirlemonhead> hmm audacity has a setting for VOX ADPCM..i'm getting something better sounding with that
[23:02] <sirlemonhead> yeah that sounds near perfect now..I can hear speech :)
[23:02] <DrMcCoy> If it sounds similar to how it should sound like, but still horribly broken, that would indicated that it does use ADPCM
[23:02] <DrMcCoy> But now you have to find out what variant, what parameters (block size), etc.
[23:03] <DrMcCoy> Since there's probably literally 1000s of those, that's hard. With luck, you might be able to guess (there's a few popular ones)
[23:03] <DrMcCoy> But I'd advice just going directly to the disasm
[23:05] <DrMcCoy> Just finding the table(s) will often clue you in what variant it uses, and the block size should be somewhere there too (if you're lucky, as a const parameter to a function call)
[23:06] <sirlemonhead> i think doing that might beyond my skill level at the moment :(
[23:06] <clone2727> Well, ScummVM does have the OKI ADPCM code if you want to try hooking it up
[23:07] <sirlemonhead> so things like sample rate arent relevant to ADPCM?
[23:07] <DrMcCoy> Sample rate is still relevant
[23:07] <clone2727> Sure it's relevant ;)
[23:08] <sirlemonhead> k thanks :) i might give that oki code a go
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[23:09] <DrMcCoy> What you get after deADPCMing is a buffer of raw 16bit samples. That still has no "prefered" sampling rate, that is specified somewhere else (either in an extra header in the file, in the scripts or in the code)
[23:09] <DrMcCoy> Depending on the variant, you might not even know whether it's mono or stereo
[23:10] <sirlemonhead> it must be in the file, I can't see where the code would be telling the driver that
[23:11] <clone2727> Yes, it's most likely in the file ;)
[23:11] <DrMcCoy> The exact sampling rate is not the big problem. First you need to find an exact match for the deADPCMing. And that is in general a lot of fiddling, with parameters that sound /almost/ correct but are in reality miles of, or some weird clicks that shouldn't be there and the like
[23:12] <clone2727> And then there's many many variants of ADPCM as DrMcCoy said
[23:13] <clone2727> a small error propagates throughout the wave
[23:13] <sirlemonhead> ho hum
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[23:13] <[md5]> good evening
[23:14] <clone2727> Oki's a pretty simple though if that's what it is
[23:14] <clone2727> ie. there's no blocks
[23:14] <[md5]> looks like I missed out on the SCI discussion. Seemed interesting enough :)
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[23:52] <CIA-136> Filippos Karapetis master * rc64a69c / (engines/sci/resource.cpp engines/sci/resource.h): SCI: Resolve some resource related FIXMEs - http://git.io/4qdBXg
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[00:00] --- Tue May 15 2012