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[01:00] <nutron> Just because it seems so mysterious and I've done quite a bit of reading on the topic, is there a HOWTO for dummies on the art of RE'ing a game engine? Seems the knowledge is quite rare and only our elders seem to know how =)
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[04:46] <tsoliman> hi all
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[08:12] <fuzzie> I added a reply to that AGS engine thread, in case anyone would like to shout at me about misrepresenting our position now. :-p
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[08:21] <Strangerke> May we throw stones, too?
[08:21] <fuzzie> No. Scones, perhaps.
[08:21] <fuzzie> Actually, anything warm would be good.
[08:21] <ST> fuzzie: Getting colder there I assume then?
[08:22] <fuzzie> Although they're forecasting a maximum temperature of 1C tomorrow \o/.
[08:22] <ST> fuzzie: Is that warmer or cooler than today/yesterday? :P
[08:22] <fuzzie> Deliciously warm!
[08:23] <fuzzie> Was -13C or so yesterday morning.
[08:23] <ST> Heh. To think I'm complaining that we're dropping down to 12C overnight here now
[08:23] <Strangerke> Yep, it's a pleasure to be there
[08:23] <Strangerke> fuzzie: -13 here too...
[08:24] <fuzzie> :|
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[08:27] <fuzzie> thankfully the university seem to enjoy paying ridiculous heating bills
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[14:47] <DrMcCoy> There, now you made me reply to the AGS thread too
[14:48] <fuzzie> oh dear
[14:48] <fuzzie> see I was hoping they'd stop going on about it :P
[14:49] <DrMcCoy> lol
[14:49] <DrMcCoy> Well, I mostly just repeated what you said
[14:49] <DrMcCoy> But more verbose
[14:49] <DrMcCoy> In the hopes that some of it sticks
[14:50] <fuzzie> btw, the GPL's 'distribution' doesn't include internal sharing in a company or something, which I imagine is what was being mentioned there
[14:50] <DrMcCoy> I was actually quite dismayed when I saw one guy on page ten reiterate the "But what about the games?!?!??!?!" argument after I had hoped it died a lot earlier
[14:50] <fuzzie> well the whole thread is a trainwreck
[14:51] <DrMcCoy> Ah, okay, so I remember wrongly then
[14:51] <DrMcCoy> I had thought the GPL covers everything that changes/extends the code, no matter if personal or not
[14:51] <fuzzie> you can do whatever you want, as long as you don't distribute to others
[14:52] <DrMcCoy> Ah, okay, my bad then
[14:52] <fuzzie> hence the AGPL extension, which means that if you setup a web service or something, then you have to distribute the code you're using
[14:52] <DrMcCoy> Ah, okay
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[14:52] <fuzzie> stop ah, okaying!
[14:52] <fuzzie> everyone is so reasonable today
[14:53] <DrMcCoy> :P
[14:59] <wjp> the horror :-)
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[15:06] <fuzzie> well I am living in a happy dream world where I don't have to care very much about ideals
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[15:06] <fuzzie> so clearly things are a bit *too* perfect
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[15:23] <_sev> is anyone here?
[15:23] Action: DrMcCoy is here
[15:24] <_sev> nice
[15:24] Action: wjp is here somewhat
[15:24] <_sev> I just got permission for Dreamweb freewaring
[15:24] <_sev> had to sort out the license, but now it is done
[15:24] <DrMcCoy> :)
[15:24] <_sev> so, it would be cool to have it in 1.5.0
[15:25] <wjp> yay, excellent news
[15:27] <_sev> will write -devel now
[15:28] <fuzzie> that is good news
[15:29] <wjp> some big headaches left to resolve in the code, but should be doable if we find the motivation :-)
[15:30] <fuzzie> savegame format is stable though, right?
[15:30] <wjp> pretty much
[15:30] <wjp> but I didn't look too closely at the metadata [md5] added
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[15:38] <_sev> mail went
[15:38] <fuzzie> hm, that is very nice
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[15:49] <CIA-23> sev * r56250 /web/trunk/data/downloads.xml: WEB: PSP package was provided
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[16:12] <Strangerke> Hum, back
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[17:13] <CIA-23> D G Turner master * r0d6b4df / (3 files): DREAMWEB: Remove uneeded duplicate function "printUnderMon". - http://git.io/wuM8kw
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[17:29] <Tomaz> good evening
[17:30] <Tomaz> does ScummVM use SDL for anything or is it all plattform specific code everywhere?
[17:30] <DrMcCoy> Both and neither
[17:31] <Tomaz> depends on the platform?
[17:31] <Hkz> Tomaz, yes
[17:31] <Tomaz> Ok
[17:31] <DrMcCoy> ScummVM has the platform dependant things seperated into backends. One backend is the SDL backend, which works on several platforms, among them GNU/Linux, Windows and Mac OS X
[17:32] <Tomaz> ok
[17:32] <Tomaz> so the ones that doesnt use SDL is the platforms that don't have SDL platforms themselves?
[17:32] <Hkz> or that want more speed
[17:32] <Tomaz> erm, SDL ports
[17:32] <Tomaz> ok
[17:32] <Tomaz> so SDL is a bad choice speedwise?
[17:33] <Hkz> it adds another layer of abstraction, and depends on how well SDL is ported to that platform
[17:33] <LordHoto> that depends on the platform, I think our SDL for WinCE is customly patched (since when it was patched at least) it's rather slow and had missing features
[17:33] <Tomaz> ok, so say GNU/Linux and Windows, those 2 only use the SDL backend?
[17:33] <LordHoto> so someone added some stuff for it, might be that other ports don't use SDL for the very same reason, since they couldn't be bothered with patching SDL
[17:33] <LordHoto> not really
[17:34] <LordHoto> GNU/Linux, Windows, OS X, *BSD, WinCE, Symbian, Maemo, PS3 should use SDL
[17:34] <Hkz> dingux too
[17:34] <Tomaz> yeah, i meant that those 2 platofrms dont have any other backends
[17:34] <LordHoto> irix, solaris etc. too
[17:34] <Tomaz> as if, for Windows, there is only the SDL backend?
[17:35] <LordHoto> yeah
[17:35] <Tomaz> sorry for the badly asked question
[17:36] <LordHoto> in fact we had some X11 specific backend in the past
[17:36] <LordHoto> but that's removed long ago, because it hadn't been really in any good shape for a long time ;-)
[17:36] <Tomaz> so for Windows and GNU/Linux, SDL is fast enough to use?
[17:37] <LordHoto> yes
[17:37] <Tomaz> great
[17:37] <Tomaz> oh, one more thing, if thats ok
[17:38] <Tomaz> how does ScummVM playback midi's ( if it even can ) on Windows and Linux? timidity?
[17:38] <LordHoto> it uses platform specific code
[17:38] <LordHoto> i.e. winapi midi stuff for windows, alsa, oss sequencer, etc. for linux
[17:38] <Tomaz> ok
[17:38] <Tomaz> i see
[17:39] <LordHoto> and we also have some software synths like fuildsynth support
[17:39] <Tomaz> but doesnt those requires patches?
[17:39] <Tomaz> i know timidity does
[17:39] <LordHoto> our timidity support is IIRC just code to connect to a timidity instance running on the system, afaik it only works under Unix like systems too
[17:40] <LordHoto> patches? as in sound fonts or as in patches to any code? ;-)
[17:40] <Tomaz> sound fonts
[17:40] <Tomaz> ive seen them refeared to as GUS patches somewhere
[17:40] <Tomaz> so i wasnt sure what the correct name was
[17:40] <LordHoto> sure, the user needs to worry about setting those up
[17:41] <Tomaz> as i understand, thats not a problem under windows? due to windows having something builtin?
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[17:41] <LordHoto> if you use the windows specific midi code yes
[17:41] <LordHoto> if you use fluidsynth on windows, no
[17:41] <Tomaz> midiOutOpen if i remember correctly
[17:42] <DrMcCoy> Well, we also have a General MIDI -> AdLib mapping, which then uses the AdLib emulator
[17:42] <Tomaz> for which platform?
[17:42] <LordHoto> all
[17:43] <Tomaz> interesting
[17:43] <LordHoto> but that said, it's from the SCUMM engine a bit tailored for its needs
[17:43] <Tomaz> that also requires sound fonts?
[17:43] <LordHoto> no
[17:43] <DrMcCoy> Well, it works for Dark Seed II :P
[17:43] <LordHoto> it works for many engines :-)
[17:43] <Strangerke> Oh, DS2 works?
[17:44] <Tomaz> I'm not sure if anyone here remembers but a few months ago i strted to "try" to write a port for ThemePark
[17:44] <DrMcCoy> Strangerke: That's not what I said
[17:44] <Strangerke> O:^)
[17:44] <Tomaz> i think fuzzie helped me out a bit to get started with how ScummVm works
[17:44] <LordHoto> but in reality, some engines use it, when they used a different GM -> AdLib implementation in the original and/or a custom AdLib implementation in the past
[17:44] <LordHoto> so it might give some different results
[17:44] <Tomaz> but i've been considering to maybe move it out of scummvm since its not really a game that you guys are interested in in regards to scummvm
[17:45] <LordHoto> but if you just want to play generic GM, it's fine
[17:45] <Tomaz> thanks for the help, now i need to decide if i want to keep using ScummVM for this or rewrite everything from scratch using SDL myself..
[17:46] <Hkz> Tomaz, if you want to do it from scratch, you might want to keep it portable enough for platforms without sdl
[17:47] <Tomaz> yeah i know
[17:47] <Hkz> a good example: http://cyxdown.free.fr/reminiscence/
[17:47] <Tomaz> this is why i liked using ScummVM, it's handling all the platform issues for me
[17:47] <Hkz> i ported that to Sega Saturn without getting crazy
[17:47] <Tomaz> but at the same time, my coding style is very different from how ScummVm does things so i dunno
[17:47] <LordHoto> ScummVM doesn't really handle everything for you
[17:48] <LordHoto> you still need to take advantage of the endian/alignment memory stuff yourself ;-)
[17:48] <Tomaz> right.. :)
[17:48] <Tomaz> not really an issue but ok :)
[17:48] <Tomaz> Hkz: thanks, ill check that out
[17:49] <LordHoto> well it's an issue in case you don't use it ;-)
[17:49] <Tomaz> i already handle endianess so
[17:49] <Tomaz> not really worried about memory yet
[17:50] <Tomaz> oh, another thing tho, i assume you arent interested in patches to scummvm unless a specific scummvm supported game needs it?
[17:50] <Tomaz> i had to extend the fli loader in scummvm when i loaded THemePark's cinematics
[17:52] <droid2727> since that's a bullfrog-specific version of flic, we probably wouldn't accept it
[17:52] <Tomaz> thats what i thought
[17:52] <Tomaz> except its part of the fli format but ok
[17:52] <Tomaz> at least according to the fli information i found
[17:53] <droid2727> it's a bullfrog-specific variant, no?
[17:53] <Tomaz> no i don't think so
[17:53] <droid2727> ie. http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=Flic_Video#Magic_Carpet
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[17:53] <Tomaz> i don't remember right now if it was decodeDeltaFLC or decodeDeltaFLI
[17:54] <Tomaz> nope
[17:54] <Tomaz> this was part of the flic standard i think
[17:54] <droid2727> ah, ok. i thought bullfrog used that in tp too
[17:55] <droid2727> then again, I have the PSX version of tp only so PSX streams over there ;)
[17:55] <Tomaz> http://www.compuphase.com/flic.htm
[17:55] <Tomaz> is the file format specifications i read
[17:55] <Tomaz> and i think it was either chunk 7 or 12
[17:55] <Tomaz> that i had to add
[17:56] <Tomaz> well, a decode function for it
[17:57] <Tomaz> yeah, scummvm didnt support 12, DELTA_FLI (FLI_LC) delta image, byte oriented RLE
[17:57] <Tomaz> which tp used
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[20:06] <sirlemonhead> is it possible to take screenshots using alt+S when you're running a debug build of ScummVM? I can't see where my screenshot files are going on windows..
[20:10] <fuzzie> doesn't look like there's any difference, it seems to just write them to the current directory
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[20:14] <sirlemonhead> not getting anything at all
[20:14] <sirlemonhead> oh hang on..the game files directory?
[20:14] <sirlemonhead> lemme see..
[20:15] <fuzzie> well, usually I would guess it's the scummvm executable directory by default, since I don't see any chdir in there at a glance
[20:16] <sirlemonhead> do I need to do anything in my engine code to "enable" screenshotting?
[20:16] <fuzzie> oh, and it won't work with opengl, presumably
[20:16] <droid2727> no
[20:16] <fuzzie> oh, it does
[20:16] <droid2727> fuzzie: I believe it does
[20:16] <fuzzie> code duplication :(
[20:17] <sirlemonhead> hmm wonder what's wrong :\
[20:17] <fuzzie> it should write to the console if it fails to write the file, though
[20:18] <fuzzie> and it does debug() with a success mesage if it succeeds
[20:18] <fuzzie> so if you start with -d 1 and watch the console output then I guess you can see whether it's trying
[20:21] <sirlemonhead> i'm not processing any events in ScummVM..probably something to do with that
[20:21] <fuzzie> oh, right
[20:21] <sirlemonhead> didn't think of that :)
[20:21] <fuzzie> yes, if you don't run the event loop at *all* then nothing gets a chance to run :)
[20:21] <fuzzie> also applies for things like mouse button state, position, etc
[20:22] <sirlemonhead> gotcha :) thanks
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[20:24] <sirlemonhead> got screenshots now!
[20:26] <sirlemonhead> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30279551/scalpel.png not much to see so far but progressing..
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[20:50] <DrMcCoy> :(
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[00:00] --- Thu Feb 9 2012